Is this abuse?

fannyanna

OP - do you think your partner has mental / emotional issues too? Other than couples counselling (Relate) do you know whether he's ever had any counselling?

(Sorry that sounds really blunt but I didn't know how to word it to make it sound better)!

EDIT: cross posted with your last post which I think answers my first question.

Butterflymind

BB

Logically, I know this, however he does call me selfish if I don't want to be in the same room. My mum caught him listening outside the door when I was on the phone recently (to my bereaved uncle, offering a shoulder to cry on). There are all sorts of little, warning signs I guess, but I have turned a blind eye to it, try to make it work.

I guess I feel too apathetic to do anything, pathetic really, I am a middle aged woman and ought to be able to sort myself. No kids involved fortunately...

BM

Hello FA - That's ok, I like people to be direct. Yes, he had counselling in past to deal with his destructive jealousy, bad childhood issues when he felt abused by his family, bullied about school, etc. Sorry I have to sign off as he is home soon...

BugglyB

Butterflymind wrote: »

BB

Logically, I know this, however he does call me selfish if I don't want to be in the same room. My mum caught him listening outside the door when I was on the phone recently (to my bereaved uncle, offering a shoulder to cry on). There are all sorts of little, warning signs I guess, but I have turned a blind eye to it, try to make it work.

I guess I feel too apathetic to do anything, pathetic really, I am a middle aged woman and ought to be able to sort myself. No kids involved fortunately...

BM

Sorry you feel like this BM, big love to you.

Try and change just a few small things every week. It doesn't need to be overwhelming all in one day change. You can do it.

Don't forget to clear your internet history. Best wishes x

fannyanna

Butterflymind wrote: »

Hello FA - That's ok, I like people to be direct. Yes, he had counselling in past to deal with his destructive jealousy, bad childhood issues when he felt abused by his family, bullied about school, etc. Sorry I have to sign off as he is home soon...

Ok, for me this is the most important part.

Once again please forgive my appalling use of wording but you're both damaged. You're going through a difficult time right now and you're struggling. I would imagine that you could really do with him being there for you. You need someone to support you. But unfortunately he's in the same position as you. So you're both struggling and needing some support (something that neither of you are in the best position to be able to give).

I suffer emotionally and my Husband provides great stability. I'm lucky to have him as he's extremely laid back and is basically my rock. When I wobble he is there to steady me. A few months ago he went through a bit of a bad time where he suffered from anxiety and depression. That was an extremely difficult time for both of us. I found it extremely difficult as I had to support him. Normally when I have a wobble he's there for me. Instead I had to try to support myself and then support him too. Luckily this only lasted a month as I'm not sure I could have kept going if it lasted any longer.

The point I'm trying to make is it sounds like you are both in the same situation my Husband and I were in for a short period of time. And that is a difficult situation to be in because when you're feeling down you don't have the strength to worry about someone elses feelings - and that can end up being destructive (as I think you're starting to realise).

mrcow

No it desn't sound like abuse. More you blowing things out of proportion and looking to apportion the blame onto him.

But you don't sound like you want to be with him anyway. If you want an "out", then leave. You're not painting a great picture of your relationship. If it's that bad, then just go.

Then you will both be free to find someone else who does make you happy.

Butterflymind

Dear all

Thank you so much for all your replies. I felt it's helped calm me down to see different perspectives on the situation. I don't feel now that I am imagining it/going mad...

I think the crux of the matter is that the therapist asked me directly if I thought I was going to get any better in the situation I was in, and also, as someone suggested, she said take a break from each other.

The pathetic thing is it scares me - this is all I've known for years, no close friends, family is distanced (he said he didn't get on with them), just me and him.

I grew up with low self-esteem; it's 'normal' for me in a way, as I saw my dad constantly belittle my mum, he's controlling and domineering, constantly called her (and all women) stupid, and laughed about it, because he was only 'joking'.

I guess I have low expectations... I feel that I would struggle to cope on my own, sad though it is when he's nice I think things will be ok, but, always seem to end up on a downward spiral and wonder why the hell I am there.

Confused

BM

fluffnutter

Butterflymind wrote: »

I grew up with low self-esteem; it's 'normal' for me in a way, as I saw my dad constantly belittle my mum, he's controlling and domineering, constantly called her (and all women) stupid, and laughed about it, because he was only 'joking'.

And you've ended up with a man just like him. The best thing, the thing you're doing already, is to have some counselling to explore your own issues. Whether or not it leads you to re-examine whether your relationship is right for you, it will still give you strength and perspective.

Think less about your OH and more about your own feelings. You can't change him but you can change yourself.

Steel_2

Is it abuse?

Yes it is. Having had to deal with a father who sounds like your other half all of my life I now see how some of it is subtle, some of it blatant, but all of it designed to make your dependent and control you.

A good book for you to read before you do anything is one called Toxic Parents: Overcoming their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life by Susan Forward (I would stash it where he can't find it and read it when he's not around).

One of the legacies is you put yourself into situations you experienced as a child because it is familiar. You end up attracting the same type of people into your life who abuse you, unless you make the commitment to change that.

Keep up with the counselling. When it starts to work and you get stronger and can stand up to him, he will try and stop you from going to the counselling. He will say it's changed you for the worse or some such rubbish, or how nice you used to be before you started going or something.

You won't struggle on your own by the way. You'll blossom. You won't be afraid of him any more and you won't have him telling you or trying to manufacture excuses or situations that 'show' you're 'useless' any more. Your stomach won't be tied up in knots when you hear him coming. You won't wonder what his reaction will be and how bad it will be when you 'make mistakes'. You won't bite your lip because you're worried about what you could set off if you say something.

My mother at 69 is so worn down by 45 years of marriage she can no longer even stand up for herself in any way without my father taking her down verbally. She has to check with him before she can come for an afternoon coffee with me as he gets jealous and insists on either coming with her or he strops that he 'may need something" while she is out so she can't go. If I go to their house he stops her talking or shouts over her so I can't hear her. She's not allowed to do the shopping without him doing a list for her or going with her.

She's watched, he goes through her belongings, her phonecalls are listended in on or he stops her making calls, checks her bank statements, he frequently tells people she's mentally disturbed and not to listen to her as she tell lies, when she's not. He has driven away all family and friends so they have no-one to socialise with but each other and he's working on distancing her from both her children and grandchilden. She can't read a book she wants because he deems anything other than the classics as rubbish. She's not allowed to knit as the noise of the needles annoys him. She has to watch what he wants and listen to what he wants. He insists he does it for her own good.

He spoils every birthday, christmas or event any way he can and if the attention isn't on him he says stupid things to get it back. When my mother was having her cataracts done and I had to pick her up from the hospital, he was ringing round the family telling them he thought he had cancer of the leg because he had a lump (where actually he'd walked into a chair the day before) and I wasn't being 'supportive'.

BUT this is only 50% of the time. The rest of the time he's fine, but it's this being on tenderhooks all the time waiting for his nastiness that has worn her down. The knowledge that if she's not careful she could tip him into the nasty state so she has become frightened and compliant. He believes as it's only some of the time he's nasty she just needs to accept it.

My sister married a man just like our father and she's now 50 and worn down after 20 years of marriage. And she complains to me that he's doing the same things as my mother complains my father does. And her children are now mini-me's - my niece is like my BIL and my nephew is like my sister.

A family of abusers and co-dependents.

I had a boyfriend just like my father and I dumped him and broke the cycle. They spend a lot of time trying to drag me back in with emotional blackmail, tears and threats, that I ruined the family and things will never be the same again. They even refer to the point in time where I had my lightbulb moment as the time when something mental happened to me that I might recover from one day!!

I'm now married to a wonderful man who is gentle, kind, patient and loyal. He's my rock and I'm glad I met him. They think I bought 'a stranger that doesn't understand us" into the family and shouldn't have.

I'm so never going back there. I'm have mental health now and no longer dread hearing or seeing them.

Never give up on your own mental health to appease anyone.

Butterflymind

Dear Fluffnutter and Steel

I think you have both hit the nail on the head. I swore I wouldn't marry a man like my dad, who treated my mum that way, she would constantly call herself thick, and believes it, even now.

Even when I had my 3rd miscarriage, and she wanted to see me (& I wanted her there) my dad refused, as he had planned something else.

And now look at me. I have several degrees, which I went through hell to get, yet I believe my OH when he says I am not capable... Talk about lack of self-esteem.

I am carrying on with the counselling, even though the thought of standing up to him again fills me with dread, because of what I went through last time (his suicide threats, etc.) and I wonder if I have the courage to leave....

BM

Steel_2

Butterflymind wrote: »

Dear Fluffnutter and Steel

I think you have both hit the nail on the head. I swore I wouldn't marry a man like my dad, who treated my mum that way, she would constantly call herself thick, and believes it, even now.

Even when I had my 3rd miscarriage, and she wanted to see me (& I wanted her there) my dad refused, as he had planned something else.

And now look at me. I have several degrees, which I went through hell to get, yet I believe my OH when he says I am not capable... Talk about lack of self-esteem.

I am carrying on with the counselling, even though the thought of standing up to him again fills me with dread, because of what I went through last time (his suicide threats, etc.) and I wonder if I have the courage to leave....

BM

I so very nearly did marry a man like him, but it just gnawed away at me all the time. "This isn't right. It hurts. This isn't right. It hurts." The only time I felt safe was in my little flat with the door locked and the phone off the hook.

It really hurts when bad things happen to you and they tell you it's either your fault or they just look past you and pretend there's nothing wrong and you're just making a meal of it.

You will have the courage to leave one day...always keep that in mind. IT took me 18 months from the time when I knew I didn't want to be with the ex to finally doing the deed. It took me that long to be confident of what I was doing and sure he couldn't pull me back in no matter what he said. I built up my strength and immunity to his BS.

I qualifed at pretty much the highest level I could, yet my father had a list of all the mistakes I'd ever made as a reason why I should be doing what he tells me to do because he knew best. For a few years I actually believed him and let him.

His list starts from the age of 18 months...when I couldn't wait until I got home to have my nappy changed and my mother had to do it in public while they were enjoying a family evening at the circus. Apparently it spoiled his evening.

When I last saw the list (just before my lightbulb moment), the last thing on there was that I married a postman not a doctor.

A heinous crime indeed!!!