Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

keggs

Maz wrote: »

Which? reports can be downloaded from the IDs extranet so presumably, it's perfectly OK and all above board.

I can't see HO queering their pitch by making these documents available wihtout the necessary say so.

Exactly but just between me and you Maz, I wasn't going to tell him that. He might just try to get into the Extranet site.

Talking of which perhaps he's been trying as I am not able to get the web site up to login.

Only joking Q

1carminestocky

:j

Cardew wrote: »

For the attention of any WHICH representative.

It is understood from post #7804 that you have been notified about the concerns many of us have about your Gas and Electricity customer’s survey.

As you are no doubt aware Utility Warehouse(UW) have a unique sales structure. With a customer base of approx 300,000 they have approx 30,000 salesmen - Independent Distributors(ID).

These IDs are encouraged initially to sell services to friends and family.

The first concern is that there have been many posts on this forum from UW IDs wrongly claiming that Which have given UW a ‘Best Buy award’ for gas and electricity*. These ‘spam’ posts are usually deleted by the site moderators.

There have also been posts stating that they have been approached by UW IDs making the same false claim for a gas and electricity Which Best Buy award or Recommended by Which.

actual examples from this thread:


There are also videos posted on YouTube where UW ID make the same claims about WHICH

*Note: Specifically referring to gas and electricity, not phone/broadband.

The second concern is the ability of the 30,000 UW IDs together with their friends and family to influence the results of your customer survey.

With approx 10% of UW’s customer base being UW salesmen, they and their family members have an obvious vested interest in ensuring that their company perform well in such a respected publication as Which.

Given the size of UW’s sales force, however randomly you select participants for your survey, it is statistically certain that you will reach a higher percentage of these salesmen and families(all with a vested interest in promoting UW) than employees of other suppliers.
For instance to statistically have the same chance of selecting a British Gas employee(let alone salesman!) to participate in the survey there would need to be 1,800,000 BG employees.(e.g. 10% of their customer base)

Given the importance the UW IDs attach to Which as a sales aid, it is not surprising that anyone with a vested interest in UW, fortunate enough to participate in your survey, might ensure that UW are awarded high marks.

Indeed a UW ID has posted on the forum that he received an email alerting him in advance of the survey. He doesn’t state who sent the email, and it is not suggested that UW HQ had any involvement, but it suggests, understandably, that lobbying does take place.

As you point out in the body of your report, UW gas and electricity prices are approx 20% more expensive than the cheapest available. Yet UW come easily top in each category including ‘value for money’.

I wonder in how many of your other surveys, just about the most expensive product like UW’s gas and electricity,(just about the most expensive tariff in UK) would be voted as have the best ‘Value for Money’ as well as top of all other categories? Especially considering the ‘product’(gas and electricity) is exactly the same from all suppliers!

Whilst in most of your surveys - cars, appliances etc there is no reason or incentive for participants the give other than an objective appraisal, that is clearly not the case for gas and electricity.

As you are aware, organisations like the BBC have stopped, or taken steps to counteract, surveys where the results can be skewed by vested interests.
It seems to many of us that Which would serve the interests of their members if they took similar steps for this particular survey.

Lastly, in what seems suspiciously like scare tactics to curtail any discussion on the merits of your survey, a self proclaimed legal ‘expert’(I use the term ‘expert’ loosely) has raised the ludicrous suggestion, that in suggesting that the results of your reader’s survey can be influenced by vested interests, that the Consumer’s Association has been libelled.

He seems to feel that criticism of the methodology of this survey amounts to libel. It would of course only be libel if it was stated/that Which had ‘rigged’ the methodology or results to favour any company – and of course that has never been suggested.

My position is quite clear, I believe the methodology of this particular survey is flawed and that there is every probability that the results of your gas and electricity readers survey has been influenced by vested interests.

Your comments would be most welcome.

:rotfl:

keggs

1carminestocky wrote: »

:j


:rotfl:

Now Carmine that was a bit below the belt. Funny though and how so true.

keggs

Still rattled I see Cardew.

Cardew

Keggs,
Look at post#7197

With your unmatched ability to get things wrong, you have managed to combine what Maz and I wrote in the one quote, and attribute both posts to myself.

Believe it or not, I am not a UW ID

keggs

Anyone seen my busom buddy Quentin. I want to ask him or is it her a question. :beer:

Thanks

keggs

Cardew wrote: »

Keggs,
Look at post#7197

With your unmatched ability to get things wrong, you have managed to combine what Maz and I wrote in the one quote, and attribute both posts to myself.

Believe it or not, I am not a UW ID

Oh you are rattled. :rotfl:

Actually Cardew I included your quote deliberately. Just forgot to enbolden the bit about emails being sent to IDs that never were. If you like I'll copy and paste it agian so everyone can be reminded.

Maz

Cardew wrote: »

Keggs,
Look at post#7197

With your unmatched ability to get things wrong, you have managed to combine what Maz and I wrote in the one quote, and attribute both posts to myself.

Believe it or not, I am not a UW ID

Post #7197 is NigeWick asking (yet again) about Quentins cashback card so I don't see the co relation??

keggs

At the risk of this thread becoming a keggs / quentin discussion (not) would anyone else like to ask him or her something he might be able to answer. He obviously doesn't want to answer my request. I'll keep trying though. You just never know what might happen.

:beer:

janninew

Maz wrote: »

If somebody signs up with any representative of an energy company, don't they then get paid also? Whether that payment is made over by salary, bonuses or is target driven, it's still payment for signing a new customer.

I believe that at the moment, comparison sites are undergoing some sort of investigative process to establish whether they are acting in the best interests of the consumer or profiteering from the highest commissions offered by the companies quoted on the sites.

It would be interesting to know what kind of commission sales reps from the big 6 get for signing up a new customer. Anybody out there willing to tell us? I should imagine the sales folk are under immense pressure to sign up and meet targets, I wonder what happens if they don't meet these targets?

I worked in a sales office in a gym (for about a week!) and the pressure was awful if staff did not meet targets, they were cautioned, then had a final warning, then fired! Not a job I could do, and its hardly surprising that we hear so many tales of underhand practice from energy company sales people.