Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

Maz

jimexbox wrote: »

Care to quote a libel against Which magazine Maz? Your mates have sadly failed to find any. They have resorted to anagrams to divert attention away from this glaring anomaly called evidence.

This has turned into a truly dreadful day for UW, spurious claims backed up with fresh air.

I don't know what constitutes libel. All I know is that a poster on this thread considers some of the comments made to be possibly deleterious to Which? magazine and has brought their attention to said posts.

I have no knowledge of the law so leave it to the legal experts to decide and thus can't make any comment of which posts are in question.

Ypaymore

I recall reading that you cant sign up to UW via a comparism site as they dont pay commission to them, and that you have to sign up via their main site, or through a distributor. Does this still stand ?

keggs

Ypaymore wrote: »

I recall reading that you cant sign up to UW via a comparism site as they dont pay commission to them, and that you have to sign up via their main site, or through a distributor. Does this still stand ?

As far as I am aware that's still the case, unless another ID can correct me. Hope that helps.

Quentin

Ypaymore wrote: »

I recall reading that you cant sign up to UW via a comparism site as they dont pay commission to them, and that you have to sign up via their main site, or through a distributor. Does this still stand ?

That's only a rumour I think. UW reps don't like you joining via a cashback/comparison site. (Especially if its MSE recommended!) If you let one in your house they are taught to tell you comparison sites are corrupt!

http://www.networkerplus.co.uk/videos/signing-customers.html

If anyone wants to join uw and take their expensive energy they can get paid to join via a cashback comparison site, instead of a rep getting paid for you signing with the rep!

Quentin

keggs wrote: »

As far as I am aware that's still the case, unless another ID can correct me. Hope that helps.

No. More misinformation from a uw rep.

As already posted some comparison sites pay gullibles cashback for switching their energy to uw!

SwanJon

Ypaymore wrote: »

I recall reading that you cant sign up to UW via a comparism site as they dont pay commission to them, and that you have to sign up via their main site, or through a distributor. Does this still stand ?

I think there were posts about being able to sign up through (?)EnergyLinx and get cashback, but there were arguments and counter arguments as to whether that was a UW ID pretending to be UW on the switching site, as UW definately don't do it. (or something)

keggs

Hi Q. Welcome back. Any chance on telling me what username you use to gain access to the NWP site.

Any chance you will answer of any of Nige's questions as well?

If you would be so kind.

Thank you.

keggs

Quentin wrote: »

No. More misinformation from a uw rep.

As already posted some comparison sites pay gullibles cashback for switching their energy to uw!

Hi Q. Could you give the username you use to gain access to the NWP site. If you'd be so kind.

Thanks.
ps It's been several hours now since I put in my request.

Cardew

For the attention of any WHICH representative.

It is understood from post #7804 that you have been notified about the concerns many of us have about your Gas and Electricity customer’s survey.

As you are no doubt aware Utility Warehouse(UW) have a unique sales structure. With a customer base of approx 300,000 they have approx 30,000 salesmen - Independent Distributors(ID).

These IDs are encouraged initially to sell services to friends and family.

The first concern is that there have been many posts on this forum from UW IDs wrongly claiming that Which have given UW a ‘Best Buy award’ for gas and electricity*. These ‘spam’ posts are usually deleted by the site moderators.

There have also been posts stating that they have been approached by UW IDs making the same false claim for a gas and electricity Which Best Buy award or Recommended by Which.

actual examples from this thread:

will appear in October's WHICH as the TOP recommendation for changing energy supplier

I have been approached about joining Utility Warehouse as a customer & distributor. It seems as though there are arguments for & against on here. I did wonder if it's too good to be true but also wondered why WHICH have it as a BEST BUY.

Is that right? Which, did not say that they were a best buy?

they simply scored the highest result in the customer satisfaction survey and were described as 'best energy supplier'

best company for customer support and best company to go with by Which magazine many times.

Maybe it was the famous impartial consumer magazine's surveys that voted UW as Best Buy for gas, elec,

There are also videos posted on YouTube where UW ID make the same claims about WHICH

*Note: Specifically referring to gas and electricity, not phone/broadband.

The second concern is the ability of the 30,000 UW IDs together with their friends and family to influence the results of your customer survey.

With approx 10% of UW’s customer base being UW salesmen, they and their family members have an obvious vested interest in ensuring that their company perform well in such a respected publication as Which.

Given the size of UW’s sales force, however randomly you select participants for your survey, it is statistically certain that you will reach a higher percentage of these salesmen and families(all with a vested interest in promoting UW) than employees of other suppliers.
For instance to statistically have the same chance of selecting a British Gas employee(let alone salesman!) to participate in the survey there would need to be 1,800,000 BG employees.(e.g. 10% of their customer base)

Given the importance the UW IDs attach to Which as a sales aid, it is not surprising that anyone with a vested interest in UW, fortunate enough to participate in your survey, might ensure that UW are awarded high marks.

Indeed a UW ID has posted on the forum that he received an email alerting him in advance of the survey. He doesn’t state who sent the email, and it is not suggested that UW HQ had any involvement, but it suggests, understandably, that lobbying does take place.

As you point out in the body of your report, UW gas and electricity prices are approx 20% more expensive than the cheapest available. Yet UW come easily top in each category including ‘value for money’.

I wonder in how many of your other surveys, just about the most expensive product like UW’s gas and electricity,(just about the most expensive tariff in UK) would be voted as have the best ‘Value for Money’ as well as top of all other categories? Especially considering the ‘product’(gas and electricity) is exactly the same from all suppliers!

Whilst in most of your surveys - cars, appliances etc there is no reason or incentive for participants the give other than an objective appraisal, that is clearly not the case for gas and electricity.

As you are aware, organisations like the BBC have stopped, or taken steps to counteract, surveys where the results can be skewed by vested interests.
It seems to many of us that Which would serve the interests of their members if they took similar steps for this particular survey.

Lastly, in what seems suspiciously like scare tactics to curtail any discussion on the merits of your survey, a self proclaimed legal ‘expert’(I use the term ‘expert’ loosely) has raised the ludicrous suggestion, that in suggesting that the results of your reader’s survey can be influenced by vested interests, that the Consumer’s Association has been libelled.

He seems to feel that criticism of the methodology of this survey amounts to libel. It would of course only be libel if it was stated/that Which had ‘rigged’ the methodology or results to favour any company – and of course that has never been suggested.

My position is quite clear, I believe the methodology of this particular survey is flawed and that there is every probability that the results of your gas and electricity readers survey has been influenced by vested interests.

Your comments would be most welcome.

keggs

Cardew wrote: »

For the attention of any WHICH representative.

It is understood from post #7804 that you have been notified about the concerns many of us have about your Gas and Electricity customer’s survey.

As you are no doubt aware Utility Warehouse(UW) have a unique sales structure. With a customer base of approx 300,000 they have approx 30,000 salesmen - Independent Distributors(ID).

These IDs are encouraged initially to sell services to friends and family.

The first concern is that there have been many posts on this forum from UW IDs wrongly claiming that Which have given UW a ‘Best Buy award’ for gas and electricity*. These ‘spam’ posts are usually deleted by the site moderators.

There have also been posts stating that they have been approached by UW IDs making the same false claim for a gas and electricity Which Best Buy award or Recommended by Which.

actual examples from this thread:


There are also videos posted on YouTube where UW ID make the same claims about WHICH

*Note: Specifically referring to gas and electricity, not phone/broadband.

The second concern is the ability of the 30,000 UW IDs together with their friends and family to influence the results of your customer survey.

With approx 10% of UW’s customer base being UW salesmen, they and their family members have an obvious vested interest in ensuring that their company perform well in such a respected publication as Which.

Given the size of UW’s sales force, however randomly you select participants for your survey, it is statistically certain that you will reach a higher percentage of these salesmen and families(all with a vested interest in promoting UW) than employees of other suppliers.
For instance to statistically have the same chance of selecting a British Gas employee(let alone salesman!) to participate in the survey there would need to be 1,800,000 BG employees.(e.g. 10% of their customer base)

Given the importance the UW IDs attach to Which as a sales aid, it is not surprising that anyone with a vested interest in UW, fortunate enough to participate in your survey, might ensure that UW are awarded high marks.

Indeed a UW ID has posted on the forum that he received an email alerting him in advance of the survey. He doesn’t state who sent the email, and it is not suggested that UW HQ had any involvement, but it suggests, understandably, that lobbying does take place.

As you point out in the body of your report, UW gas and electricity prices are approx 20% more expensive than the cheapest available. Yet UW come easily top in each category including ‘value for money’.

I wonder in how many of your other surveys, just about the most expensive product like UW’s gas and electricity,(just about the most expensive tariff in UK) would be voted as have the best ‘Value for Money’ as well as top of all other categories? Especially considering the ‘product’(gas and electricity) is exactly the same from all suppliers!

Whilst in most of your surveys - cars, appliances etc there is no reason or incentive for participants the give other than an objective appraisal, that is clearly not the case for gas and electricity.

As you are aware, organisations like the BBC have stopped, or taken steps to counteract, surveys where the results can be skewed by vested interests.
It seems to many of us that Which would serve the interests of their members if they took similar steps for this particular survey.

Lastly, in what seems suspiciously like scare tactics to curtail any discussion on the merits of your survey, a self proclaimed legal ‘expert’(I use the term ‘expert’ loosely) has raised the ludicrous suggestion, that in suggesting that the results of your reader’s survey can be influenced by vested interests, that the Consumer’s Association has been libelled.

He seems to feel that criticism of the methodology of this survey amounts to libel. It would of course only be libel if it was stated/that Which had ‘rigged’ the methodology or results to favour any company – and of course that has never been suggested.

My position is quite clear, I believe the methodology of this particular survey is flawed and that there is every probability that the results of your gas and electricity readers survey has been influenced by vested interests.

Your comments would be most welcome.

Oh you are rattled. Nice try though. :rotfl: