Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

Cardew

kippen_noedel wrote: »

UW is the highest investment I've ever made in any energy company, their profit ratio is obscene that's why they have been a good investment vehicle for me :A

Who would blame you? I wish my portfolio had done half as well.

I would share your sentiments about UW - don't like the modus operandi, but like the profitability - had I bought shares.

My reason for not buying them was a 'gut feeling' that they have little substance as a company. They depend on a deal with npower currently and when they sell out/get taken over, as I suspect they will in time, I suspect it will be the directors rather than shareholders who will fare best.
However what do I know? I invested heavily in Bank and High Tech stocks;)

1carminestocky

kippen_noedel wrote: »

I wouldn't touch any communications company in this current climate, unless there was a huge crash and the shares became pennies.

though CPW does have a decent dividend record up 27% over last 5 years, their profits has actually dropped in relation to turnover by 5% over same period. They are not my type of company.

Check out the classification the LSE places on TEP. If you read the chairman's statement I believe he concedes that profit margins on telephony are proportionately much higher than the profits on domestic fuel.

Cardew

1carminestocky wrote: »

Your propensity for hypocrisy knows no bounds. Only yesterday evening you were mocking a poster's spelling/grammar. I mean, how CRASS is that? One thing you and I have in common is we don't exactly struggle with the written word. The difference between us (and it's a HUGE difference) is you seek to denigrate someone who is clearly not as 'learned' as yourself whereas I am only interested in bursting bubbles that have become over-inflated (i.e people like you). In effect, you are the archetypal bully. You revel in riding roughshod over people you feel 'superior' to. You tried it with me when I'd just joined but came massively unstuck. You've resented my presence on here ever since.

For the sake of argument, I will concede that is 100% accurate. Does that make you feel better?

Now about your input to this thread?

Quentin

Cardew wrote: »

We shall have to disagree then on the definition of a Troll

What is the definition of a forum troll?

This is curezones:

An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" or "Message Board Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.
He (and in at least 90% of cases it is he) tries to start arguments and upset people.

Best just not to feed one when you spot one.

1carminestocky

Cardew wrote: »

For the sake of argument, I will concede that is 100% accurate. Does that make you feel better?

Now about your input to this thread?

LOL. Input to the thread? I've only made 750 posts, I'm not sure what you mean.

To be serious for a minute, I confess to liking the company. I've always been the person who rooted for the underdog, whether it be sport, business or indeed life. They are competing with huge behemoths whose annual advertising budgets would probably dwarf UWs 'huge profits'. To do that they have obviously had to be innovative. And I'm sure some of their salesmen/distributors employ tactics that are questionable to say the least. I've said on here many times I abhor those sort of sales tactics. But if you read some of the posts from a few of the contributors on this thread you could get the impression that UW were the only energy supplier in the UK who were not 100% kosher in everything they do. And that would be 100% incorrect.

Have you ever witnessed Quentin slagging off one of the Big 6 companies, for instance? No. He only tends to get involved in this forum to slag off UW. Which is questionable to say the least. I've never seen you query why he doesn't ever criticise any of the big 6 but I have witnessed you heaping praise on his actions in this thread. Weird, that. These sort of things obviously work both ways.

1carminestocky

Quentin wrote: »

What is the definition of a forum troll?

This is curezones:



Best just not to feed one when you spot one.

Subtitled: don't get involved when you know you'll come out the loser. Your npower annual discount post was a c*ck-up of immense proportions. :rotfl:

kippen_noedel

1carminestocky wrote: »

Check out the classification the LSE places on TEP. If you read the chairman's statement I believe he concedes that profit margins on telephony are proportionately much higher than the profits on domestic fuel.

yes and they always should be, their telecomms side actually required some modest infrastructure investment. on energy they just skim.

It's the blend, the way they get their salesmen to pay for themselves, they almost can't lose. or at least until critical mass is reached they cant lose.

Not sure I'd be too quick to buy at the current price though, I'm actually considering offloading some to take out my original investment.

vinnyph

Cardew wrote: »

Who would blame you? I wish my portfolio had done half as well.

I would share your sentiments about UW - don't like the modus operandi, but like the profitability - had I bought shares.

My reason for not buying them was a 'gut feeling' that they have little substance as a company. They depend on a deal with npower currently and when they sell out/get taken over, as I suspect they will in time, I suspect it will be the directors rather than shareholders who will fare best.
However what do I know? I invested heavily in Bank and High Tech stocks;)

In personally speaking to Charles on the matter of selling out he has always said the same statement. The plan from the start for Telecom Plus has always been to maintain a profit for distributors. His father Lord Wigoder, a liberal, tried to put forward a pension plan for the country that would allow for the average person to have a good retirement income. However his ideas were never put into place because of politics at the time. Charles Wigoder has tried to use Telecom Plus as a vehicle to allow an alternative pension like income for distributors. His main interest is to make it work for distributors. To illustrate this, the wages paid across all the directors in total amounts to £220,000 annually. Compare that to what the average director earns from the big 6. Charles has said repeatedly that he does not want to sell the company on. He realises by its nature that it will grow steadily. He has said repeatedly he is in it for the long haul. Other companies in the sector gain market share by the purchase of other smaller companies. For instance Carphone Warehouse. However the less experienced share trader will not realise how much debt that company is in as a result. That method requires huge up front costs and so the debts are large. Then there are the high up front advertising and marketing costs. In comparison T+ has no debt and spare money in the bank. The reason they are so profitable is because it costs much less to gain customers. Charles was also at pains to find similar minded directors more interested in diligently growing the company than their own profitability. I have met the directors and would trust this. Its the dedication towards others that initially inspired me that the company would succeed. Something that is missing from society all the more these days.

If you were involved with Telecom plus you would realise its because of this that people respect Charles Wigoder in his running of the company. Its because people trust him. He has many other plans ahead. Now anything can happen. If the worst came to the worst and the company was bombed by The A.U.W.F. then it would mean people would have to find their extra income elsewhere and work till they drop like most other people will have to.

1carminestocky

kippen_noedel wrote: »

yes and they always should be, their telecomms side actually required some modest infrastructure investment. on energy they just skim.

It's the blend, the way they get their salesmen to pay for themselves, they almost can't lose. or at least until critical mass is reached they cant lose.

Not sure I'd be too quick to buy at the current price though, I'm actually considering offloading some to take out my original investment.

I think it's more to do with the fact they aren't particularly tied into one telephony supplier and there always seems to be massive excess supply, personally.

I bought in at prices slightly less than they are now and am more than happy to stay. It's the dividend that's the major pull for me. I like the fact that Wigoder sort of relies on it for income (granted it will be massively higher than mine, lol). Always good to have a CEO who relies almost solely on dividend income IMO.

Cardew

vinnyph wrote: »

In personally speaking to Charles .

I wonder if 'Charles' will shudder when he reads your post!

Do you not appreciate the damage caused sycophantic posts like that above?