Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

kippen_noedel

1carminestocky wrote: »

I think it's more to do with the fact they aren't particularly tied into one telephony supplier and there always seems to be massive excess supply, personally.

I bought in at prices slightly less than they are now and am more than happy to stay. It's the dividend that's the major pull for me. I like the fact that Wigoder sort of relies on it for income (granted it will be massively higher than mine, lol). Always good to have a CEO who relies almost solely on dividend income IMO.

yeah, he bought a massive tranche earlier in the year,

div is out for the year, that's why I'm considering a move away.

1carminestocky

vinnyph wrote: »

In personally speaking to Charles on the matter of selling out he has always said the same statement. The plan from the start for Telecom Plus has always been to maintain a profit for distributors. His father Lord Wigoder, a liberal, tried to put forward a pension plan for the country that would allow for the average person to have a good retirement income. However his ideas were never put into place because of politics at the time. Charles Wigoder has tried to use Telecom Plus as a vehicle to allow an alternative pension like income for distributors. His main interest is to make it work for distributors. To illustrate this, the wages paid across all the directors in total amounts to £220,000 annually. Compare that to what the average director earns from the big 6. Charles has said repeatedly that he does not want to sell the company on. He realises but its nature that it will grow steadily. He has said repeatedly he is in it for the long haul. Other companies in the sector gain market share by the purchase of other smaller companies. For instance Carphone Warehouse. However the less experienced share trader will not realise how much debt that company is in as a result. That method requires huge up front costs and so the debts are large. Then there are the high up front advertising and marketing costs. In comparison T+ has no debt and spare money in the bank. The reason they are so profitable is because it costs much less to gain customers. Charles was also at pains to find similar minded directors more interested in diligently growing the company than their own profitability. I have met the directors and would trust this. Its the dedication towards others that initially inspired me that the company would succeed. Something that is missing from society all the more these days.

If you were involved with Telecom plus you would realise its because of this that people respect Charles Wigoder in his running of the company. Its because people trust him. He has many other plans ahead. Now anything can happen. If the worst came to the worst and the company was bombed by The A.U.W.F. then it would mean people would have to find their extra income elsewhere and work till they drop like most other people will have to.

You make a very valid point. Carphonewarehouses' debts are actually surprisingly large. There are lots of examples of surprising debt piles in UK businesses. I wonder how many Tesco shareholders, for instance, are aware of their debt figure of £9,600,000,000? Tesco? Almost 10 billion smackeroos in debt?? :eek: Financing these debts places a huge burden on even the most successful of companies. UW's profit figures are not 'skewed' by financing any debt.

1carminestocky

Cardew wrote: »

I wonder if 'Charles' will shudder when he reads your post!

Do you not appreciate the damage caused sycophantic posts like that above?

Why would he shudder? vinnyph clearly likes Mr Wigoder and his way of running the company. It's not often someone can get so close to his CEO. Have you ever met Sam Laidlaw?

Cardew

1carminestocky wrote: »

LOL. Input to the thread? I've only made 750 posts, I'm not sure what you mean.


Have you ever witnessed Quentin slagging off one of the Big 6 companies, for instance? No. He only tends to get involved in this forum to slag off UW. Which is questionable to say the least. I've never seen you query why he doesn't ever criticise any of the big 6 but I have witnessed you heaping praise on his actions in this thread. Weird, that. These sort of things obviously work both ways.

You still don't seem to understand!

It doesn't matter what I think of Quentin's posts in other threads; and, as you delight in pointing out I have clashed with him on another thread. It is his input on UW that matters in this thread.

On this particular thread he has exposed mainly the disgraceful sales techniques - aren't those videos wonderful? - and advertising of UW and been attacked unmercifully.

Your whole approach with any 'opponent' is to attempt discredit them(French & Saunders, BG 2010, he invested in Banks, he is with BT etc etc) in the hope that if they have made a mistake or can be ridiculed, then any contribution about UW(in this case) can be disregarded.

You are perfectly aware that the criticisms of the anti UW faction about their energy prices and their modus operandi are valid, yet in 700+ posts you do nothing but praise UW and attack anyone with a valid criticism of the company.

kippen_noedel

vinnyph wrote: »

In personally speaking to Charles on the matter of selling out he has always said the same statement. The plan from the start for Telecom Plus has always been to maintain a profit for distributors.

funny, I can think of a few directors in similar positions over the years saying the same thing only to take their profit out and leave on a whim.

I guess only time will tell if he does turn out to be Saint Charles or not. I know where I would place my bet.

kippen_noedel

1carminestocky wrote: »

You make a very valid point. Carphonewarehouses' debts are actually surprisingly large. .

last time I read around 45% of the value of the company, actually larger than their assets.

Cardew

1carminestocky wrote: »

Why would he shudder? vinnyph clearly likes Mr Wigoder and his way of running the company. It's not often someone can get so close to his CEO. Have you ever met Sam Laidlaw?

From the tone of the post, if 'Charles' was Catholic he would be on the fast track to canonization.;)

Sounds like he runs a charity, instead of a company that largely depends on 30,000 distributors selling overpriced energy largely to trusting friends and family.

1carminestocky

Cardew wrote: »

You still don't seem to understand!

It doesn't matter what I think of Quentin's posts in other threads; and, as you delight in pointing out I have clashed with him on another thread. It is his input on UW that matters in this thread.

On this particular thread he has exposed mainly the disgraceful sales techniques - aren't those videos wonderful? - and advertising of UW and been attacked unmercifully.

Your whole approach with any 'opponent' is to attempt discredit them(French & Saunders, BG 2010, he invested in Banks, he is with BT etc etc) in the hope that if they have made a mistake or can be ridiculed, then any contribution about UW(in this case) can be disregarded.

You are perfectly aware that the criticisms of the anti UW faction about their energy prices and their modus operandi are valid, yet in 700+ posts you do nothing but praise UW and attack anyone with a valid criticism of the company.

I have already stated I wouldn't have signed up to gas and electric from UW based on the 'bald' figures so not sure what you want of me here. Fact is, even before the introduction of the cashback card (definition: fly in Anti-UW's Faction's ointment ) the deal for taking all 4 services was very competitive in the marketplace. I ummed and arred. They were an interesting alternative, I liked the way they competed with companies who had billions of pounds more resources. I didn't and still don't fully understand the obsession of some posters in unilaterally denigrating them in a wholly discredited industry hence my perceived belligerent attitude to posters who appeared to single them out for scorn. But I finally decided to commit when the deal, for me and my family, became an absolute no-brainer. Yes, to get this amazing deal we shop at Sainsburys (big deal, to get your allegedly amazing deals on domestic fuel and telephony you had to commit for 5 years and 18 months respectively. Who's got the least risky deal, I wonder? My only 'risk' here is £50 within the first 12 months. Yours?)

kippen_noedel

1carminestocky wrote: »

I have already stated I wouldn't have signed up to gas and electric from UW based on the 'bald' figures so not sure what you want of me here. Fact is, even before the introduction of the cashback card

If you didn't spend so much at Sainsburys I would not have agreed they were the best option for you.

1carminestocky

kippen_noedel wrote: »

If you didn't spend so much at Sainsburys I would not have agreed they were the best option for you.

But we get a great deal at Sainsburys, kn . This is not something I have unilaterally (there's that word again) decreed, it's borne out by a cursory glance at the Shopping Forum. We wouldn't have believed it ourselves just a short while ago but how many people would have predicted that investing money in TEP a couple of years ago would have massively out-performed investing in bricks and mortar like banks? These are crazy times. Go with the flow..