Who's going to loose when DLA becomes PIP?

clouty

That's a bit of a trick question, as we just don't know yet. Some people are worried that the new disability descriptions that have to apply to a person to be awarded the new benefit are not realistic, and miss some major disabilities.

PIP and DLA are supposed to cover some of the additional costs of living with a disability.

PIP has been designed to take half a million existing DLA claimants out of the benefit. We know how hard DLA is to claim - it seems PIP is going to be even harder. They are getting rid of the lower care band all together.

The crazy thing is that many working disabled rely on their mobility payments to get them to and from work, and pay for the adaptions they need to be able to work in the first place. Many of the severely disabled think they won't get this help under the new PIP benefit. This will just increase costs, in other areas, and is likely to more than wipe out any savings that have been planned into PIP.

In order to enable the public consultation being held now by the DWP, a group of disabled people have had a bash at translating the consultation documents (very dense) into plain English.

The group involved calls itself Spartacus, and created a twitter storm around the Welfare Reform Bill a while back, trending top for a while They were one of the main forces to bring the details of welfare reforms under the magnifying glass.

If you want to have a bash at raising awareness about how disabled people are being shafted, join us!

There's lots more here http://wearespartacus.org.uk/2012/02/27/spartaci-we-need-you/

PIP simplified second draft regulations explained purple box version
Ditto, plain text
PIP consultations translated purple version box version

A plain text version of the second document will be available soon, and I'll add the link as soon as I can.

The original Spartacus Report can be seen here

Fibrogirl

Im amazed no one has replied so here goes

I am so worried about it and so angry some of the suggestions are horrifying

If you currently get High rate mobility under PIP unless you use a wheelchair 100% of the time, or someone pushes you then under PIP you are highly unliekely to qualify for the enahnced rate - although nothing has been said yet id be very surpised is anyone other than the enhanced rate will qulaify for Motability - thats possibly 280,000 people

Thats a hell of a lot of cars, rav's, expensive wheelchairs going back. In the case studies it has a man who was an amuptee could walk with cruteches for a few steps and then wheel himself he didnt qualify for the enhanced rate.

There is way more in there that at the moment could mean way more people who get high rate care get a big fat 0 under PIP not just those on low rate care it will hit accross the board.

It would be easy to shrug and think no point wont be listened to anyway - but im not prepared to do that - not for me as under PIP i am likely to qualify for enhanced on both. but the im alright jack apparoach isnt something im prepared to do.

As clouty saud at least read the documents and perhaps come back and talk about it - I havent even got started on the horros that Universal Credit contains for us

rogerblack

Fibrogirl wrote: »

Im amazed no one has replied so here goes

The PIP regulations are relatively hard to read, and to answer the question properly, you need both an understanding of the DLA rules, and an understanding of the PIP rules.

I suspect the number of people that can usefully comment is thus small.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-assessment-thresholds-and-consultation.pdf - is a document discussing the consultation into PIP.

Tables 3 and 4 reveal that on their modeling, based on 900 cases, there is no change in distribution between DLA and PIP due to age.
(the small, percent or two variations are not reliable due to the small study size)
The below table has existing DLA award, against new PIP award, with the extra column being where a band is going away - summing those with low care and medium care.

C=care, M=mobility, high/middle/low/not.
DLA DLA PIP summed lower band
HMHC 350 340
HMMC 290 190 560
HMLC 270
HMXC 130 230

LMHC 170 110
LMMC 450 250 780
LMLC 230
LMXC 50 190
XMHC 10 90
XMMC 40 250 230
XMLC 190

Looking at these, some things pop out immediately.

Assuming that nobody moves up a band, and no new people who were not entitled are now - which is probably an oversimplification.

Some groups are almost unaffected.
Those on HRC/HRM, for example.
There are now 1.04m on HRM, this will drop to 760k.
A quarter of motability cars are going back.
Of those with HRM, as people getting HRC are almost immune, for people now getting LRC/MRC/no care, 40% will lose it.

There are 530K getting HRC. This actually goes up by 10K.

Of the 780K getting MRC, if we assume that no LRC cases move up to standard daily living, about 80K lose it entirely. (assuming some MRC move to HRC).

Unfortunately, the situation for most other things is impossible to tease out of this table.
Simply as the changes in one band are usually impossible to isolate without making lots and lots of assumptions. - you have no clue where the people on 'standard care/no mobility' come from, you can make reasonable assumptions, but they may be far from reality.

kathrynklear

I would suggest that any one worried or baffled by what is going to happen to their DLA under the new proposals should visit the spartacus forum..... really helpful stuff!

diddyman_2

I personally agree with PIP - DLA is far too subjective and just depends on how you fill in the form. I reckon I will probably do better out of PIP.

Parva

diddyman wrote: »

I personally agree with PIP - DLA is far too subjective and just depends on how you fill in the form. I reckon I will probably do better out of PIP.

No surprise that you support it then is it.

gingergee

Im well confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I get HRC HRM. This was only awarded a week or so ago,indefinatley. Why would they award this if they are planning on changing it so dramatically? I [EMAIL="!!!!pin"]!!!!pin[/EMAIL] myself now. I Have SLE and as most know, its a condition that varies. Today 04/03/2012 im sat on sofa, with 2 heat pads unable to walk. Tomorrow im going doctors to see if i can be referred to OT, to see what help they can offer. Im popping Tramadol and codiene plus diazipam to try and not be in pain. This time next week however, i may just be tired, with maybe pain in my knees. This can all be proven via blood tests/MRI/CT etc. PIP Is gonna affect me i expect. Im only 29, can't even go the loo on my own at present!!!! Been on a downer all weekend cos i cant walk, now im down about PIP!!!

uponahill

I get HRM & MRC indef. I too fully agree with the new PIP scheme. Hopefully it will rid those on DLA that don't deserve to have it. With everyone working on a level playing field (instead of the professional liars who seem to know how to fill the damn forms in) and having a medical assessment, there should be equality across the board.

However, whilst I have been medically proven not to be able to walk without being in pain, hence why I use the Motability car so much, when PIP comes in I will lose ALL of the mobility element. Why, simply because I, like most of us, can use crutches or wheel a wheel a wheelchair. I wouldn't need anybody to push me and to be honest I wouldn't want to have anybody pushing me!!

As for my mobility, I will go back to owning my own car. Many manufacturers are doing so many great deals on new cars at the moment, Vauxhall especially with their new Astra & Insignia. I am starting to look round now, and will use the DLA mobility money to help pay for it until it is taken off me - hopefully in about 2 years. Then I will only have another 2 years of payments to make out of my other benefit money.

I will say one thing, with the loss of DLA (Care - Mid/High), there are going to be some problems with people who will lose the disability premiums & elements for WTC, PC, IS etc.

sunnyone

gingergee wrote: »

Im well confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I get HRC HRM. This was only awarded a week or so ago,indefinatley. Why would they award this if they are planning on changing it so dramatically? I !!!!pin myself now. I Have SLE and as most know, its a condition that varies. Today 04/03/2012 im sat on sofa, with 2 heat pads unable to walk. Tomorrow im going doctors to see if i can be referred to OT, to see what help they can offer. Im popping Tramadol and codiene plus diazipam to try and not be in pain. This time next week however, i may just be tired, with maybe pain in my knees. This can all be proven via blood tests/MRI/CT etc. PIP Is gonna affect me i expect. Im only 29, can't even go the loo on my own at present!!!! Been on a downer all weekend cos i cant walk, now im down about PIP!!!

Have you seen a pain specialist? Those meds are not the best for chronic pain conditions, they are ok as PRN top ups though.

schrodie

rogerblack wrote: »

A quarter of motability cars are going back.

That'll really be a blow to Motability, loosing 25% of their 600000 customers may hit them hard as well as the car industry in that's ~150000 fewer cars being sold.

rogerblack

schrodie wrote: »

That'll really be a blow to Motability, loosing 25% of their 600000 customers may hit them hard as well as the car industry in that's ~150000 fewer cars being sold.

That's an interesting point.
It also raises the issue that some of the savings from this measure will be borne through losses to the car industry.