Having problems with DD2 now :(

daska

Thought I'd just pop back to the subject of sleep again. The American Sleep Foundation says the following:

"Teens need about 9 1/4 hours of sleep each night to function best (for some, 8 1/2 hours is enough). Most teens do not get enough sleep — one study found that only 15% reported sleeping 8 1/2 hours on school nights."

whatamess_2

Have not logged in to MSE for a very long time. Was around when sp was about.
Do lurk about a bit though.

Saw this and had to post something, have worked with sen children mainly asd. Non verbal, aggressive, can decorate a room with brown stuff, it goes a long way.

Have worked with a couple of young girls with the behaviours you are describing. It screams smith magenis syndrome to me. Non compliant, loving attentive one minute to ripping their clothes off and destroying everything in sight the next.

If this has already been ruled out I apologise for giving you something else to worry about.

messy

Darlyd

whatamess wrote: »

Have not logged in to MSE for a very long time. Was around when sp was about.
Do lurk about a bit though.

Saw this and had to post something, have worked with sen children mainly asd. Non verbal, aggressive, can decorate a room with brown stuff, it goes a long way.

Have worked with a couple of young girls with the behaviours you are describing. It screams smith magenis syndrome to me. Non compliant, loving attentive one minute to ripping their clothes off and destroying everything in sight the next.

If this has already been ruled out I apologise for giving you something else to worry about.

messy

Thank You will look that up and bring along to CAHMS with me next week as well as others that have been said.

Thank you once again to the replies, this is really helping me to focus as I am getting to talk to people.

lostinrates

darlyd wrote: »

Thank You will look that up and bring along to CAHMS with me next week as well as others that have been said.

Thank you once again to the replies, this is really helping me to focus as I am getting to talk to people.

Is there any chance your oh could attend with you. Might his opinion urge the profesionals to realse you need a lot more help?

Darlyd

lostinrates wrote: »

Is there any chance your oh could attend with you. Might his opinion urge the profesionals to realse you need a lot more help?

DH will be with me yes. We have been keeping a diary, and we also have many videos on my phone which I told CAHMS I would do. DD is not due to come with us to this meeting, so we can freely discuss things.

lostinrates

darlyd wrote: »

DH will be with me yes. We have been keeping a diary, and we also have many videos on my phone which I told CAHMS I would do. DD is not due to come with us to this meeting, so we can freely discuss things.

I wish you the very bestbof luck. I hope for all of you some real help is forthcoming and some actionable options are discussed.

Padstow

I have no experience of MH issues, damaged children or syndromes, so ignore me if you like. I think I have identified two areas with problems though.

The first is choice and who chooses? Your child dd being allowed to choose their own punishment? That is so wrong IMHO. I don't agree with punishment anyway, only reward. In the bin that one.
That said, choices or options are a very useful tool and keep you in control.

DD1 wanted porridge. "Sorry, no porridge, kitchen closed. (I used to announce the kitchen closure, 10 mins ahead) Have a slice of toast" You have then taken control dd. It's the tiny things that count but add up and establish your control in the household.

Choice is a vital tool as long as you are in control. When they are playing up at bedtime. "Pink jamas or yellow" "Cuddle now or story in bed"?
Always end the choice with what YOU want, never fails.

Bedtime is where it's going badly wrong. Bedroom at eight sleep by nine, whatever, but not to suit the parents, especially one who seems disengaged. Sacrifices must be made now or the family split and at least one child will be lost to the care system.

My nightly routine would be. Get both bathed and in jammas, leave DD1 with step dad. Take littly up and read her a story.

DD1, she reads me a story in bed or tells me about her day. Most important, we have lots of cuddles. No way would I expect a child to sleep having watched an hour of television from 8 till 9. Ban all electrical devices from their rooms.
What child could sleep having just watched eastender trash?
You wonder where the knife idea came fom?

Darlyd

Padstow wrote: »

I have no experience of MH issues, damaged children or syndromes, so ignore me if you like. I think I have identified two areas with problems though.

The first is choice and who chooses? Your child dd being allowed to choose their own punishment? That is so wrong IMHO. I don't agree with punishment anyway, only reward. In the bin that one.
That said, choices or options are a very useful tool and keep you in control.
Just to clarify this is what the professionals adviced us to do (parent classes, social worker, yisp etc)
DD1 wanted porridge. "Sorry, no porridge, kitchen closed. (I used to announce the kitchen closure, 10 mins ahead) Have a slice of toast" You have then taken control dd. It's the tiny things that count but add up and establish your control in the household.
This is what she does nearly every night when it's passed her bed time, I do not understand this because she has a large dinner, pudding and munchies before bed or takes to bed with her, to me she is doing it as she knows this is wrong, she will also just tip a packet off porridge over the work top just because...

Choice is a vital tool as long as you are in control. When they are playing up at bedtime. "Pink jamas or yellow" "Cuddle now or story in bed"?
Always end the choice with what YOU want, never fails.
As above, I give her the choice, but I do tell her, for example, usually when I say to her "what you id was very wrong, and you need to suffer the consequences, so what do you think that would be?" (I know she will shrug her shoulders) So I say no tv, grounded for 2 days see how things go.

Bedtime is where it's going badly wrong. Bedroom at eight sleep by nine, whatever, but not to suit the parents, especially one who seems disengaged. Sacrifices must be made now or the family split and at least one child will be lost to the care system.

My nightly routine would be. Get both bathed and in jammas, leave DD1 with step dad. Take littly up and read her a story.

DD1, she reads me a story in bed or tells me about her day. Most important, we have lots of cuddles. No way would I expect a child to sleep having watched an hour of television from 8 till 9. Ban all electrical devices from their rooms.
What child could sleep having just watched eastender trash?
You wonder where the knife idea came fom?
She watches TV till 9, and plays on her ds very low volume, OR she reads with her night light on, no problems... she can go to sleep when ever she wants, it's her choice, but by turning tv off (we have plug in our room) it will make her bored, and go to sleep. And no noise for DH as he is in bed for 9 up at 3.30am... and it does her good as she is up for 6-6.30am leaves house at 7.30 for school at 8... Long day.. And no vitamins, omega 3 will make her concentrate if she has not had enough sleep... She is wired enough as it is, by wired I mean very hyper, Talks fast, changes subject easily, etc like a woman with BP..

Either me or DH takes DD2 to bed and reads her a story then puts dvd on for her, off for 7.30, when DD2 has gone to bed, me and DD1 are alone on sofa watching tv, talking, playing, reading, writing, drawing eating etc no matter it's just us 2...

This is why I do not understand why she is like she is, because we are kind caring family, that don't shout, scream, smack, throw things etc at each other.. It's just DD1 who does this.. She has a switch, kind one minute (she gets praised for this) and then the next bammm (over something so small, she could be reading with DD2, DD2 says word wrong and DD1 will freak right out, made worse when I softly say that is wrong to shout, DD2 only 5 etc etc) People have to live it to completely understand.

daska

TV before bed is something often discouraged for good sleep hygiene. I'm not for one moment suggesting that it is the cause of the any of the problems she has but her quality of sleep might be very much better if you could replace the TV and DS with audio books and radio. Obviously attempting that would have to be balanced against the difficulty of switching over! (Having only recently found the answer to DS2 sleeping through the night (at 4 years 8 months!) I'm very conscious of the impact of a good night's sleep on how well he can cope.)

msb5262

Hi OP,

I can see you are having a very difficult time and you have my sympathy. Looking at this as an outsider, there seem to be a few things going on which could be changed for the better.

Please forgive me for speaking bluntly -

darlyd wrote: »

DD2 goes to bed for 6.30, dvd on till 7.30, she used to be asleep by the time dvd finished.

I can't understand why anyone would put a dvd on for a child who is meant to be going to sleep!

I know that DD2 isn't the source of your main difficulties but things like this sum up how problems develop.
Young children need a quiet bedtime routine with quality time from their parent or carer - it's all part of learning good sleeping habits and feeling loved, safe and relaxed.
I'm afraid you need to abandon the whole idea of screens for both daughters, then if anything bring DD2's bedtime forward and spend some positive time with DD1.
If that means you have less time or no time with your OH of a week night, so be it - your DD1 is in a crisis and it's having a massive impact on all your lives.
So in the short term you probably need to meet her needs before yours or your OH's - after all, SHE is the child and YOU are the adults.
Your emotional needs should take the back seat for now.
To anyone who thinks this is a bad idea, DD1 is forcing her own emotional needs to the top of the agenda in a very negative way - if her parents choose to put her first for a while, the whole family is likely to benefit hugely. Either way, she's at the centre so the family might as well opt into being positive and proactive with it rather than allowing DD1 to drive everything.

Ok I'll shut up now!

Best of luck OP

MsB