Parking Charge with Leased car

MacBudman

Hello everyone,
I am a new member and arrived here when searching for information regarding a parking charge notice that was slapped on my windscreen last week from UKPC in Coatbridge retail park. :mad:
The forum is great :T and full of informative information that will help me and other potential victims out there to tackle these rat bag, low life scammers trying to make a living out of the pockets of people who come to retail parks in good faith... Argos, I am returning my goods, just to get even...,

Anyway, now that I have had a small rant, (sorry) and are now aware of the scammers (thanks to this forum), but are not quite sure as to what will happen next, in my case of having a leased car through my employers.
From what I understand so far is that UKPC will contact DVLA who will then sell the relevant details (for a small fee). UKPC will then contact my employers as being the main lease for the vehicle with their scam letters and threats but I am unsure as to how my employers will react to this _pale_

Can anyone advise how I can explain this to my employers when they are notified or they may even decide to pay the charge without my knowledge and against my (now better judgement), then just forward me with an invoice to pay them instead
Does anyone know if an employer can take this action or do I have the right to request their co-operation and support in this matter.

I am beginning to see the funny side of this as my last thought is wondering whither my employers will understand if I tell them that I am dealing with this issue by not responding to any corrispondance that UKPC send to my employers. :rotfl:

Thanks for any help or advice and will update any further developments,
MacBudman.

The_Slithy_Tove

Whether your employer can charge you or not depends on the conditions of the agreement you have with them/the lease company. You need to check them carefully. It may refer to "fines" which mean legally enforceable tickets such as those from councils or the police. Private tickets do not come under this category, and so should not be charged to you. However, many lease companies are unaware of this, and need educating. Unless specifically allowed in your employment contract, they cannot make deductions from your pay, though there have been cases on the forums where quite a bit of conflict between employee and employer ensues over such tickets.

Two possible courses of action.
1. Contact the PPC. Although this goes against the recommended approach, by contacting them (even if it's to tell them to p*** off), it'll deflect all the junk mail and demands for money away from the lease company and straight to you, at which point you know what to do with it (hint: ignore it). That way, you won't get into any potential difficulty with your employer.
2. Contact the lease company, and make it quite clear that if they receive such an invoice from a PPC, then they are not to pay it under any circumstances, and theat they should simply forward it to you (at no cost). Lease companies have a nice little earner going passing on the costs plus a hefty admin charge to their hapless punters. Don't let this happen to you.

taffy056

I would contact the scammers and put it in an appeal so they write to you with the refusal without going to the dvla first for the details. They then simply write to you and you ignore them.

Also print this out and show your fleet manager or whoever is responsible for the vehicles, I know in my company our owner and fleet manager treats ppcs as a bit of fun as they know it's a scam, and they have told the leasing company not to pay anything and just tell the scammers who the leaseholders are.


http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009/5/28/question-private-parking-fines-fleets-urged/30698/

Coupon-mad

MacBudman wrote: »

Hello everyone,
I am a new member and arrived here when searching for information regarding a parking charge notice that was slapped on my windscreen last week from UKPC in Coatbridge retail park. :mad:
The forum is great :T and full of informative information that will help me and other potential victims out there to tackle these rat bag, low life scammers trying to make a living out of the pockets of people who come to retail parks in good faith... Argos, I am returning my goods, just to get even...,

Anyway, now that I have had a small rant, (sorry) and are now aware of the scammers (thanks to this forum), but are not quite sure as to what will happen next, in my case of having a leased car through my employers.
From what I understand so far is that UKPC will contact DVLA who will then sell the relevant details (for a small fee). UKPC will then contact my employers as being the main lease for the vehicle with their scam letters and threats but I am unsure as to how my employers will react to this _pale_

Can anyone advise how I can explain this to my employers when they are notified or they may even decide to pay the charge without my knowledge and against my (now better judgement), then just forward me with an invoice to pay them instead
Does anyone know if an employer can take this action or do I have the right to request their co-operation and support in this matter.

I am beginning to see the funny side of this as my last thought is wondering whither my employers will understand if I tell them that I am dealing with this issue by not responding to any corrispondance that UKPC send to my employers. :rotfl:

Thanks for any help or advice and will update any further developments,
MacBudman.

I think there's a real danger that the Lease company WILL just pay it unless you are very very clear with the right people at the lease company and at your own company that this is a scam invoice. You must take action to clarify the legal position now, up front.

You could try writing quickly to the PPC and saying that you were driving and do a basic 'appeal' (only for show, to try to get them to write to you!). It's the driver they need to know, not the registered keeper. Don't mention to them that it's a lease car, don't let them realise the easy money opportunity that awaits if they ignore your letter and write to the lease company. They would hope for an immediate payment, no questions asked, and would get it from many stupid Fleet Managers.

But this thread below explains why the lease company should not do this:

http://www.pepipoo.com/forums/lofive...hp/t65302.html

I am SchoolRunMum on pepipoo, look at my reply and links dated 4th October on that thread, the emails used on the linked 'sixt' car hire thread I mention there are the way forward for you to copy/amend, without delay.

Also look at this thread which shows what a lease company should do, i.e. forward any letters to the company or the driver's attention (as neither the lease co nor your employer is liable, and even under the new Freedoms Bill a Lease company would not be liable either):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=66692

And you'll see on that thread there's a link to the BVRLA website which gives template letters for Lease companies to use. The British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association is the trade body for companies engaged in the leasing and rental of cars and commercial vehicles, and they DO know the score.

Point out to the Lease company that to pay this or take it seriously would be to go against their own industry advice from their own trade body.

There is plenty of info to give the Lease co and your own Fleet Manager up front, including a printout or link to the Fleet News article already provided. Do this straight away, as well as writing a brief 'I was the driver' letter to UKPC in the hope that they send the threatograms to you.

vax2002

They are 4 or 5 sets of prefixes that are almost exclusive to fleet cars due to the office they are registered to.
if these scammers spot a lease reg, they know they have just about got the money in the bag and will ticket on sight !
Regardless of if any "infringement" has occured, they just go straight for them as they know 9/10 lease companies will just pay straight up with no argument as it gives the lease company a chance to cash in on the scam and add on a Admin fee, now multiply these admin fees up and we are talking a tidy sum of scam money without having to strike a bat.

taffy056

I would wager a rather a lot of money on the fact that the lease and car hire companies know exactly that these invoices are just that, and not enforceable, all they want is the admin fee, so the person or company faces a double whammy from the scammers, and then the lease/car hire scammers.

Basically you are fighting something they have no damned right to pay, but do it anyway so they can pocket money as well!

EHBA

I don't often post on here but appear in the pepipoo threads having been through this at work. Take some time to go through those threads to pick up the background info on PPC's/lease co's and the 'politics' involved.

Assume no-one is on your side, assume no-one cares if you end up out of pocket and assume no-one knows anything about Private Parking Companies. You do need to get onto this in the next few days.

As mentioned by Coupon Mad, use the fleet news link and the BVRLA template letter Private_Parking_Ltr 2

Via your Fleet Manager and the Lease company you need to make sure the lease company are not going to pay it. If the lease company pay it, make sure your employers are not going to pay it. If your employer pays it, make sure they know you are not going to authorise a deduction in your salary.

Even if the lease company have procedures not to pay PPC charges it is quite possible that an office junior will pay it thinking it is an official fine. It is quite possible that for the sake of a minutes work they are more than happy to pay the charge and collect the £25/35 admin fee, knowing that you employer will pay them

Get sight of your company car contract asap.

Very important, if anyone refers to it as a fine, either verbally or in writing, always correct them immediately with "it is not a fine, it is an unenforceable invoice from a private company relating to an alleged breach of contract to which neither the leasing company or 'your employer' were party"

In my opinion you have no need to contact the PPC. The BVRLA template letter is all the lease company need to send to UKPC.

MacBudman

Thank you all very much for your quick replies on this,
The links, letters and advice has relay been helpful and much appreciated as there are things I had not considered.
I will be looking at all advice and options and feed back my progress.
Thanks again,
MacBudman :-)

steve1500

Just to add I have a lease car & we sub contract out, however the contract we have quite clearly states that the lease car company will not release any information about our employees without our permission and furthermore our own confidentialty policy quite clearly states the procedure for non consented disclosure of staff information.

MacBudman

Update on my dealings with the PPC's.

Warning: Do not read if you are a PPC Attendant or Taller...!

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You just never know who is reading these threads

I spoke to my Car Leasing Manager by phone to enquire what procedures are in place for disputing PPC notices.
He informed that they would receive notification from the Contract Hire Company with details of any claims and would then forward to the employee in charge of vehicle, for their attention.

This appears pretty clear so far, but I'm starting to get a bit paranoid with regard to the Office Junior senario that EHBA mentions :eek:

(sorry if this affends Office Junior's, but PLEASE PAY ATTENTION !)

Due to this chilling thought, have decided to send an e-mail to Car Leasing for clarification

I also acquired a copy of the leasing contract terms and conditions as advised in the thread and can't see anything that would suggest a breach of contract when disputing the PPC claim.., apart from these two sections re: the Board :question:

Use of Vehicle

4.2 The employee will be responsible for meeting the cost of any fixed penalty fines incurred by the vehicle whether on business or private use. The Board reserves the right to levy a handling charge on the employee if it should have to settle any fine first.

4.3 Although the vehicle remains the property of the Contract Hire Company, the employee is liable for its road worthiness and is required to indemnify the Board against parking fines, or other liabilities arising from the way the vehicle is used, particularly breaches of the Road Traffic Acts.

My next move., I think, is to await confirmation from Car Leasing that the PPC has bought personal details from DVLA.., Again :mad:

Anyway, to stay calm about this, I am looking forward to sending the fleet news letter and BVRLA template letter as suggested by taffy056 and Coupon Mad to my Leasing Manager to begin my defence :T

Does anyone know how long it will take the PPC to send their begging letters, as I am getting board and just want to get to court to sort this out either way :question:

Sorry, for ranting again and the over use of post icons, (can't help myself, they are great )
I did try to keep this to a few lines

Regards,
MacBudman.

trisontana

Of course PPC invoices are neither "fixed penalties" or "parking fines" and have nothing to do with Road Traffic Acts. So those T&Cs are not relevant in your case.