Parking Charge with Leased car

taffy056

You got to be clear about this to the leasing company, these are not fines, they are not from an authority, and there is nothing in the road traffic act for this. You tell the lease company that if they pay this invoice that they are in breach of thier own terms, try and get your company involved as they will then try to charge this.

You should also say to your company that they are not allowed to deduct money from your salary without your authority, show them the fleet news article send them links to watchdog videos. Try to be proactive here, explain what a con this is, and should it happen again they know what to do , and that is ignore the scammers.

Coupon-mad

trisontana wrote: »

Of course PPC invoices are neither "fixed penalties" or "parking fines" and have nothing to do with Road Traffic Acts. So those T&Cs are not relevant in your case.

That is the first thing I would point out as well. :T

A fake PCN is none of those things, it is either a contractual allegation against you personally, MacBudman, or a claim of trespass against you personally (or at least, against 'the driver' personally, since these companies never even bother to find out who that is as they know the DVLA will sell them the keeper's details - which works very well for their scam most of the time). It certainly is not a fine, not a penalty, nothing to do with any Road Traffic Act and no liability whatsoever for your company. Nor is it any business of the Lease Company - as confirmed on the BVRLA website - even after the Freedoms Act goes through (an amendment was tabled and accepted when the Bill was read, which will ensure that Lease companies are still not liable in future either).

Those t&cs are not relevant to this at all. But I expect they will be the first thing the Management try. TELL THEM WHY THE T&CS DO NOT COVER THIS SCAM FAKE PCN. Be very clear and calm, keep the moral high ground here - in fact you are being very fair by alerting them up front to a scam so they do not end up paying it in error.

I would assume the PPC will get the Lease Co's details from the DVLA pretty soon - this week? - so I would be proactive right now and send the Managers the information you have. Send it to the Lease Manager and your Manager/Fleet Manager.

Assume they know nothing about this scam, start from that standpoint and you will either be pleasantly surprised or you can educate them with the Fleet News and BVRLA links. This may be the first time for them that a clued-up driver has spotted the big difference between a real PCN and a fake one.

Start with a concise paragraph that clearly says you won't be paying this 'charge' nor taking it seriously under any circumstances and you are alerting them to a scam in case any of the Fleet Admin staff are taken in by the letters they wlll receive. Then explain more...

To give you an idea of what to say in your emails/letters, here's another good pepipoo thread:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=62531

In this example the stupid Lease Company just paid out but the driver was having none of it. His emails explained the legalities so well that the Lease company, sixt, referred it to their legal team and stopped bothering him - they must have realised they had fallen for a scam. You could tweak those emails on that thread, albeit re-word them as your Lease Company haven't fallen for it... yet.

MacBudman

Coupon-mad wrote: »

That is the first thing I would point out as well. :T

A fake PCN is none of those things, it is either a contractual allegation against you personally, MacBudman, or a claim of trespass against you personally (or at least, against 'the driver' personally, since these companies never even bother to find out who that is as they know the DVLA will sell them the keeper's details - which works very well for their scam most of the time). It certainly is not a fine, not a penalty, nothing to do with any Road Traffic Act and no liability whatsoever for your company. Nor is it any business of the Lease Company - as confirmed on the BVRLA website - even after the Freedoms Act goes through (an amendment was tabled and accepted when the Bill was read, which will ensure that Lease companies are still not liable in future either).

Those t&cs are not relevant to this at all. But I expect they will be the first thing the Management try. TELL THEM WHY THE T&CS DO NOT COVER THIS SCAM FAKE PCN. Be very clear and calm, keep the moral high ground here - in fact you are being very fair by alerting them up front to a scam so they do not end up paying it in error.

I would assume the PPC will get the Lease Co's details from the DVLA pretty soon - this week? - so I would be proactive right now and send the Managers the information you have. Send it to the Lease Manager and your Manager/Fleet Manager.

Assume they know nothing about this scam, start from that standpoint and you will either be pleasantly surprised or you can educate them with the Fleet News and BVRLA links. This may be the first time for them that a clued-up driver has spotted the big difference between a real PCN and a fake one.

Start with a concise paragraph that clearly says you won't be paying this 'charge' nor taking it seriously under any circumstances and you are alerting them to a scam in case any of the Fleet Admin staff are taken in by the letters they wlll receive. Then explain more...

To give you an idea of what to say in your emails/letters, here's another good pepipoo thread:

"Please not that the above link has been removed due to restraints within the Forum as a Newbie and you can link to the thread from the origenal post from Cupon-mad in this thread, (sorry)

In this example the stupid Lease Company just paid out but the driver was having none of it. His emails explained the legalities so well that the Lease company, sixt, referred it to their legal team and stopped bothering him - they must have realised they had fallen for a scam. You could tweak those emails on that thread, albeit re-word them as your Lease Company haven't fallen for it... yet.

:rotfl: The pepipoo thread has cheered me up :T

I think my Leasing Department seem oblivious to this scam and are in for a big lot of :rotfl:

Can't wait for them to contact me for a fun and educational experience from all parties

Regard,
MacBudman

robredz

Have you appraised the leasing company of the scam, and provided them with the link and a printed copy & paste as posted by Taffy056?

this one

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009/5/28/question-private-parking-fines-fleets-urged/30698/


If not I would do so, and tell them that you will not be reimbursing them for paying a scam ppc invoice in error.

MacBudman

robredz wrote: »

Have you appraised the leasing company of the scam, and provided them with the link and a printed copy & paste as posted by Taffy056?

this one

Hyperlink removed by MacBudman due my newbie restrictions
fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009/5/28/question-private-parking-fines-fleets-urged/30698/


If not I would do so, and tell them that you will not be reimbursing them for paying a scam ppc invoice in error.

Not yet, I sent an e-mail to the leasing department to clarify my phone call with them in the event of taking action on my behalf.
I didn't want to get them involved until sure that they have received a claim from the PPC.

Having said that.., You are right robredz, I need to inform the leasing department of this scam now, wither they are aware of it or not.

Will do this fist thing tomorrow

The_Slithy_Tove

MacBudman wrote: »

Not yet, I sent an e-mail to the leasing department to clarify my phone call with them in the event of taking action on my behalf.
I didn't want to get them involved until sure that they have received a claim from the PPC.

Having said that.., You are right robredz, I need to inform the leasing department of this scam now, wither they are aware of it or not.

Will do this fist thing tomorrow

Good. If you wait til they get the PPC's letter, they may pay up before you even get to know about it, and from then on, it can get complicated and hasslesome. Best to make it quite clear to them what's what, and pre-empt any stupid actions they may take.

MacBudman

Quick Update of PPC proceedings, hehe.

Sent an e-mail to my car leasing manager and leasing contract company as advised, (on Tuesday) with the fleetnews link as well as a short note, constructed from various letters within this forum (thanks) to advise my concernes regarding PPC's.

I have had no responce as yet and awaite their reply or notification to me regarding the PCC's claim :eek:

P.S. Will post the e-mail I sent to leasing dept when the PPC attendants are all in bed or in jail

Regards,
MacBudman

HO87

As a general point it is worth remembering that unlike individuals vehicle leasing companies are ideal targets of Norwich Pharmacal Orders (NPO) launched by PPC's. Firstly, because they have records (paper and/or electronic) and secondly because they have large pockets and the threat of picking up the costs for the entire proceedings can be very effective. There is at least one case I am aware of involving Alphabet who were duly ordered to divulge their customer's details on application of a PPC. This is in contrast to several attempts at applications for NPO's from private individuals all of which have failed, most notably in a double attempt at Melton Mowbray last year by our friends from Excel/VCS.

The important point to make to car rental companies/leasing companies is that they should not (and are under no obligation whatsoever) pay but supply the details of the rentor/lessee and invite the PPC to take matters up direct. This keeps them clear of any NPO (and its potential costs) and any breach of contract action by their customer. These companies need to educate their staff to detect the difference between a genuine PCN/FPN and a PPC invoice.

Trebor16

Even if a PPC did threaten a lease company with a NPO, it would still not provide the PPC with details of who was driving the car at the relevant time and would only give them a name and address to waste their time with their unenforceable threatograms.

taffy056

HO87 wrote: »

The important point to make to car rental companies/leasing companies is that they should not (and are under no obligation whatsoever) pay but supply the details of the rentor/lessee and invite the PPC to take matters up direct. This keeps them clear of any NPO (and its potential costs) and any breach of contract action by their customer. These companies need to educate their staff to detect the difference between a genuine PCN/FPN and a PPC invoice.

What about the DPA ? Are they breaking it by supplying your name and address to a third party company?

==========

Q: We are a data controller, and have received a request for information that we hold about an individual from another organisation. Can we release it?

Generally the Act would not allow a disclosure to a third party data controller unless the individual had been informed of the disclosure (see the first principle - Fair Processing). However there are a number of exemptions that allow disclosure in certain circumstances.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/Global/faqs/data_protection_for_organisations.aspx