Parking Charge with Leased car

ManxRed

Get hold of the EXACT wording of the terms and conditions that your man is referring to. I'm willing to bet it refers to fines and penalties from authorised bodies (or similar) and it might be very easy to demonstrate that this does not apply in this case.

MacBudman

Was thinking that myself angel_islington, on receiving their response., I kind of slipped into that tone., hoping they will come on board with this PPC scam.


Unfortunately this has denaturised the importance of my decision to challenge the PPC's claim and encouraged their ignorance in this matter by quoting the Ts&Cs that do not apply in this case and threatening reimbursement if this goes t**s up :eek:


I did say in my e-mail to the car leasing dept that I will be forwarding this e-mail in letter form as requested by them., only now I will be including you folks car leasing manager and leasing supplier manager, which I have informed previously, before they received the invoice !


Anyway that is in the past and probably taken as a "What if" scenario and ignored.


This is the Ts&Cs for my leasing contract, relevant to fines/liability etc, for anyone interested but can't see anything that would conflict my legal position on this.

1. 1. Although the vehicle remains the property of the Contract Hire Company, the employee is liable for its road worthiness and is required to indemnify ****** against parking fines, or other liabilities arising from the way the vehicle is used, particularly breaches of the Road Traffic Acts.

1. 1. The employee will be responsible for meeting the cost of any fixed penalty fines incurred by the vehicle whether on business or private use. ******* reserves the right to levy a handling charge on the employee if it should have to settle any fine first.

Thanks for the google auto thing to the BVRLA website coupon-mad., have never seen that before., can you do a link for an easy life.., hehe.


I appreciate all the input so far with this dispute




MacBudman..., signing off for now to address my next bid for legal rights to slap a PPC with a zero result as a car leaser.

angel_islington

It pretty much says what I expected. That you are liable for any fines.

I'm not sure what the "other liabilities arising from the way the vehicle is used" bit could be interpreted. It's very vague but these types of contracts are intentionally so. It's so they can go "Oh yes its covered under this very vague bit here that nobody really knows what it means. Sorry mate."

You have the weekend to draw up another reply. Feel free to post it here first or you can PM a senior member if you feel more comfortable doing that.

The_Slithy_Tove

MacBudman wrote: »

Although the vehicle remains the property of the Contract Hire Company, the employee is liable for its road worthiness and is required to indemnify ****** against parking fines, or other liabilities arising from the way the vehicle is used, particularly breaches of the Road Traffic Acts.

It's not a parking fine, so that's easy, nor is is a breach of the RTA. It could be argued that it is an "other liability", but a speculative invoice is not a liability until declared so by a court, IMO.

MacBudman wrote: »

The employee will be responsible for meeting the cost of any fixed penalty fines incurred by the vehicle whether on business or private use. ******* reserves the right to levy a handling charge on the employee if it should have to settle any fine first.

Not a fixed penalty, so this one's not relevant either. And only this clause talks about a handling charge.

give_them_FA

A liability is something which they are obliged to pay. Such as the Congestion Charge.

As they are not, and never can be, liable to pay a PPC charge, then it plainly is not part of their T & C.

You need to find someone in the company with the balls to tell the PPC that they will not pay. End of.

Or, get them to do as Esmerobbo describes.

Write to the PPC saying, "we accept no liability for this charge. However we are prepared to supply you with the details of the hirer, there will be a £50 administration charge for this service".

Coupon-mad

MacBudman wrote: »

Thanks for the google auto thing to the BVRLA website coupon-mad., have never seen that before., can you do a link for an easy life.., hehe.

Yep there is a link that works in this pepipoo thread, post #14:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=65808&st=0&p=636681&#entry636681

And it mentions this name as a BVRLA contact:

''ask them to email their concerns for attention of Jay Parmar in the Legal and Policy Dept.

He knows and understands exactly what private parking tickets are all about, they should accept his wisdom on the matter as this is their trade body after all.

(While they are at it, why not get your fleet hire company to suggest to Mr Parmer that some industry guidance would be a good idea).''

HTH, definitely give the Leasing Co the working BVRLA link and the name Jay Parmar as mentioned on that thread. Bit embarrassing for them that you are being forced to point them in the direction of their own industry trade body. But you have no choice, this is the way forward I think.

MacBudman

In response to the last e-mail received from "my work's" leasing dept !

Posting for further guidance/scrutiny, grammer, spelling :-( (before I send it.)

Sorry folks,
I have been experiencing some personal issues at present (ongoing) and struggling to focus on dealing with this issue, but think I have covered what I need to get across here (but open for any assistance )

MacBudmans last fling of the dice :mad: (with wording credits )

Hi **********,

Have been doing some research regarding my legal position as the leaser of the vehicle.

Although you acknowledge my request to pass my details to *PPC* when you receive further correspondence. This however, does not alleviate the problem of the contract hire company (******** ********) or *my work* taking matters into their own hands, eventually when letters become more demanding.

I have read and acknowledged the terms and conditions of my leasing contract and fully accept that ********* ********* and * my work* are entitled to be indemnified for any financial penalty they incur due to traffic/parking charges. '' But the point that I am questioning is that this is NOT a financial penalty, nor has it been incurred by anyone other than the driver personally, nor is such a speculative charge covered within the terms and conditions of my leasing contract that I am aware of.

I would be grateful if you can clarify on what grounds under the terms and conditions, from both *my work's* leasing contract and ******** *********'s leasing contract with *my work * would justify taking such action as to pay this invoice/ charge, on my behalf.

As far as I am led to believe my legal position is clear, in that if there was a contract between *PPC * and the driver of the vehicle. The driver should be legally entitled to dispute the claim through the proper legal channels, such as court action.

Any action taken on behalf of the driver as I understand would be unjustified in this case and reimbursement to * my work * would be questionable.

I am not trying to be difficult in any way but would like some clarity to my rights as the leaser of the vehicle to challenge disputes such as PPC's as they do tend to write to the registered owner/keeper speculatively but know full well the driver is the only person possibly involved.

I would appreciate some clarity and guidance in this matter and to my rights within the terms and conditions to my leasing contract with *my work * !

Regards,

MacBudman (*****)

Trebor16

give_them_FA wrote: »

A liability is something which they are obliged to pay. Such as the Congestion Charge.

As they are not, and never can be, liable to pay a PPC charge, then it plainly is not part of their T & C.

You need to find someone in the company with the balls to tell the PPC that they will not pay. End of.

Or, get them to do as Esmerobbo describes.

Write to the PPC saying, "we accept no liability for this charge. However we are prepared to supply you with the details of the hirer, there will be a £50 administration charge for this service".

Maybe registered keepers could do the same and tell the PPC's they will supply the driver details on receipt of exactly the same amount that the PPC are claiming.

give_them_FA

Great minds think alike Trebor! That is what I was planning to do if I ever manage to get another PPC ticket. Can't buy one at the moment, are they all on strike?

Coupon-mad

MacBudman wrote: »

In response to the last e-mail received from "my work's" leasing dept !

Posting for further guidance/scrutiny, grammer, spelling :-( (before I send it.)

Sorry folks,
I have been experiencing some personal issues at present (ongoing) and struggling to focus on dealing with this issue, but think I have covered what I need to get across here (but open for any assistance )

MacBudmans last fling of the dice :mad: (with wording credits )

Hi **********,

Have been doing some research regarding my legal position as the leaser of the vehicle.

Although you acknowledge my request to pass my details to *PPC* when you receive further correspondence. This however, does not alleviate the problem of the contract hire company (******** ********) or *my work* taking matters into their own hands, eventually when letters become more demanding.

I have read and acknowledged the terms and conditions of my leasing contract and fully accept that ********* ********* and * my work* are entitled to be indemnified for any financial penalty they incur due to traffic/parking charges. '' But the point that I am questioning is that this is NOT a financial penalty, nor has it been incurred by anyone other than the driver personally, nor is such a speculative charge covered within the terms and conditions of my leasing contract that I am aware of.

I would be grateful if you can clarify on what grounds under the terms and conditions, from both *my work's* leasing contract and ******** *********'s leasing contract with *my work * would justify taking such action as to pay this invoice/ charge, on my behalf.

As far as I am led to believe my legal position is clear, in that if there was a contract between *PPC * and the driver of the vehicle. The driver should be legally entitled to dispute the claim through the proper legal channels, such as court action.

Any action taken on behalf of the driver as I understand would be unjustified in this case and reimbursement to * my work * would be questionable.

I am not trying to be difficult in any way but would like some clarity to my rights as the leaser of the vehicle to challenge disputes such as PPC's as they do tend to write to the registered owner/keeper speculatively but know full well the driver is the only person possibly involved.

I would appreciate some clarity and guidance in this matter and to my rights within the terms and conditions to my leasing contract with *my work * !

Regards,

MacBudman (*****)

Hi,
I think that's fine as you do have to tread carefully with your employer.

Have to say if it were me I would still enclose the BVRLA template letters printed out, or a link to that BVRLA page that has the letters on it.

Maybe in the paragraph where you say you've been researching the legal position you could add that you have also found out that the BVRLA (lease co's Trade Body in the UK) share your view. So you are surprised that {your employer and the Lease co} seem to be taking the scam/speculative invoice seriously.

I just think it adds real weight to what you are saying, but it's up to you. Good luck.