Parking Charge with Leased car

MacBudman

Received letter today from my leasing dept with Final Reminder invoice enclosed from the PPC and short note to inform me that they have passed my details to the PPC as requested by myself.

Also enclosed was the letter that my leasing department have sent to the PPC, which I find rather lame and gives the PPC the option to contact **my work** again when they are not getting any response from me :mad:
Letter to PPC from my leasing dept:

I write to you in regards to blablabla parking charge, please contact our driver direct who is responsible for lease car ******** , our driver has instructed us to pass on his contact details to you in order he can communicate directly with yourselves on this issue.
*my details**
**********
*********
Please contact ******** directly in relation to this matter




I think give them FA is right !

give_them_FA wrote: »

You need to find someone in the company with the balls to tell the PPC that they will not pay. End of.

".

It's how to do it without upsetting someone :eek:

Stephen_Leak

Sometimes, people need to be upset. Especially, if they will do wrong otherwise, Just don't expect any thanks, though.

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.

angel_islington

MacBudman wrote: »

I think give them FA is right !

It's how to do it without upsetting someone :eek:

When it's your money on the line, upsetting someone who is ill-informed is irrelevant.

MacBudman

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Hi,

Have to say if it were me I would still enclose the BVRLA template letters printed out, or a link to that BVRLA page that has the letters on it.

Sorry.., forgot to metion in my last post that I did provide the BVRLA template letters when sending the e-mail to the leasing dept as well as the views from BVRLA regarding PPCs.., thanks for that

Only problem now is that I have not received a responce to the e-mail, apart from the notification they received from the PPC. :mad:

Think a phone call is urgently required...., just need to calm down first

MacBudman

Received e-mail today from leasing dept in responce to my last e-mail regarding my rights as the lease holder of the vechile.
Was advised that it has been passed on to their line manager for further guidance on how to proceed with this matter.

Well here it is.., two e-mails in one day
Management e-mail:

**MacBudman***,

*leasing staff member* passed me your query and I accept that the level of confusion over the issue of parking tickets by certain companies makes it difficult. However, **my work** has to protect itself from potentially increasing charges if employees don't take any action.
You have agreed that we pass your details onto the company involved here and hopefully you will be able to settle the matter between yourselves prior to any court action. It is difficult to know at this stage what course of action that *PPC * will take i.e. if they will agree to deal with you direct. Obviously this would be best for all parties concerned given that you know the particular circumstances of the "offence" and you would be able to argue your case with them. Should they continue, however, to refuse to deal with you and keep escalating the charges then we may have to seek legal advice on how to proceed from that point.

***********************
**********************
*MY WORK *

Any advice on how to respond to this would be welcome as I don't seem to be getting the message accross or should I just ignore and do nothing as I feel that I have done all that I can do to inform and educate on this issue.

Regards,
MacBudman, well p**sed off !

The_Slithy_Tove

They still really don't get it, do they?

"hopefully you will be able to settle the matter between yourselves"
Well, the whole supposed contract is between you and the PPC, and your work is not party to it in any way. I don't think they understand this.

"we may have to seek legal advice on how to proceed from that point."
Maybe they should do this sooner rather than later. Then their legal advisors may be able to explain to them the facts of life regarding PPC invoices.

Coupon-mad

MacBudman wrote: »

Received e-mail today from leasing dept in responce to my last e-mail regarding my rights as the lease holder of the vechile.
Was advised that it has been passed on to their line manager for further guidance on how to proceed with this matter.

Well here it is.., two e-mails in one day
Management e-mail:

**MacBudman***,

*leasing staff member* passed me your query and I accept that the level of confusion over the issue of parking tickets by certain companies makes it difficult. However, **my work** has to protect itself from potentially increasing charges if employees don't take any action.
You have agreed that we pass your details onto the company involved here and hopefully you will be able to settle the matter between yourselves prior to any court action. It is difficult to know at this stage what course of action that *PPC * will take i.e. if they will agree to deal with you direct. Obviously this would be best for all parties concerned given that you know the particular circumstances of the "offence" and you would be able to argue your case with them. Should they continue, however, to refuse to deal with you and keep escalating the charges then we may have to seek legal advice on how to proceed from that point.

***********************
**********************
*MY WORK *

Any advice on how to respond to this would be welcome as I don't seem to be getting the message accross or should I just ignore and do nothing as I feel that I have done all that I can do to inform and educate on this issue.

Regards,
MacBudman, well p**sed off !

I would reply quote by quote:

''I accept that the level of confusion over the issue'' = there is no confusion.

Work/lease co are not liable under any circumstances. I do know that work and lease co have continued to be unsure about it, which is why I have allowed my details to be divulged, even though there was no lawful reason you/lease co had to say anything at all to PPC.

''my work has to protect itself from potentially increasing charges'' = this is not the case here, not necessary.

Neither work nor lease co is liable for an alleged contract breach/charge against an individual (me). In support of this fact I have emailed to you/lease co a Fleet News article and a BVRLA (lease company trade body) template letter link for fairly easily knocking such speculative invoices into touch.

''It is difficult to know at this stage what course of action that *PPC * will take i.e. if they will agree to deal with you direct.'' = it's not difficult at all.

They can only lawfully deal with me direct as this is not a parking fine and they are not an authority like the Police or a Council. The fact that they are allowed access to the DVLA database is a well-known scandal, has been covered many times in the national press and was covered on Watchdog again only on Thursday. The DVLA believe these companies have 'reasonable cause' to get the keeper's details in order to establish who their target is (the driver). Only for that reason.

The driver is the only possible party to their alleged contract. Here's a solicitor on Watchdog explaining the position and the same solicitor in the Guardian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/sep/04/parking-ticket-private-property

To quote from Tim Cary the solicitor: ''The registered keeper is not liable for any private parking claims and has no legal obligation to confirm the identity of the driver." Exactly the same advice was categorically spelt out on Watchdog on Thursday. However to appease the situation I gave express permission for you to divulge who was driving, to stop them bothering work and lease co.

''Should they continue, however, to refuse to deal with you and keep escalating the charges then we may have to seek legal advice on how to proceed from that point.''

That would be a shame and a waste of money for work as the facts are simple and very easily established from advice from any trade body, internet search etc.

The driver is the only person possibly liable and to continue to contact you and the lease company once they know the identity and address of the driver would be a criminal offence (harassment). It's also against the British Parking Association's Code of Practice and you/lease co could report PPC for such a breach to the BPA (their own trade body) if you get any more bother now that they have the driver's details. I suspect that you will hear nothing more now that they have the driver's details because all future letters should be sent direct to me alone as it's my issue alone - and I will happily deal with it.

love & kisses

MacBudman



MacBudman, do you have a Union - if so, copy them in to help other employees in future. If the Union rep knows the score it will help your colleagues in the long run.

EHBA

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

They still really don't get it, do they?

"hopefully you will be able to settle the matter between yourselves"
Well, the whole supposed contract is between you and the PPC, and your work is not party to it in any way. I don't think they understand this.

"we may have to seek legal advice on how to proceed from that point."
Maybe they should do this sooner rather than later. Then their legal advisors may be able to explain to them the facts of life regarding PPC invoices.

I fully agree with Slithy Tove. The 'fleet' people I dealt with in our company blustered on about the company's position and the relationship with the lease company and that these things had to be paid so the company wasn't liable.

You really do have to keep spelling it out "This is an unenforceable invoice issued by a a private company for an alleged breach of contract to which neither you
(the company), nor the leasing company were party"

You have completely absolved your company and the lease company by putting your name forward. ( I can't recall if you confirmed yourself as the driver but for reference you are the person responsible for the company car on a day to day basis. Other family members can drive my company car without asking my permission, possibly you are in the same position).

Once I had spelt it out verbally and in writing the company position changed to 'we'll take advice from our 'external' legal advisors. Result, my colleagues heard no more about the deductions in salary they were asked to authorise for PPC charges, which the lease company had already paid.

I think you need to speak to the 'management' rather than continue to play e-mail ping pong. Agree that there is confusion then say "could I ask you how much you know about Private parking Companies?". Their answer has to be nothing or not much.Then you can educate them and offer to send all the links as suggested by Coupon Mad and he/she may see the situation in a different light. Get them on your side. Ask them if they think the Lease company really know that much about PPC's.

Keep it friendly but use your new found knowledge to be more assertive.

MacBudman

EHBA wrote: »

You have completely absolved your company and the lease company by putting your name forward. ( I can't recall if you confirmed yourself as the driver but for reference you are the person responsible for the company car on a day to day basis. Other family members can drive my company car without asking my permission, possibly you are in the same position)..

Funny you should mention that EHBA, I have not confirmed the driver as yet, due to the good advice given here and yes.., I must be in a similar leasing contract as yourself as anyone can drive my leased car providing they have a valid licence.
This includes family members, work colleges and anyone else that needs a car for an hour or so to go shopping and get a parking invoice, .


Thanks for all responces and for the boost !


Was seriously considering hiding under a big rock, until this is over but think I need to see this through.., not just for myself but to assist others in my position who may be unfortunate enough to be caught in this leasing senario trap when challenge PPCs with thier unenforceable scam agreements.

Thanks, Coupon-mad for your time and efforts with this :T
as well as all other recent responces to date.:T

Will be cutting and pasting tomorrow for sure

Regards,
MacBudman.

photome

Have been reading this thread with interest as I also drive a lease car.

I admire the OPs stance, as I know my employers just pay up and then get it back from "us"

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