MSE Newborn to 1 year Baby Club 1

*Nutella*

Morning Katie - and yay for feeling almost human! That's great re. him putting himself back to sleep, I'm hoping my LO will start doing that at some point - although at the moment she seems far too excited by rolling around and shuffling about to bother with boring stuff like sleeping beyond 4.30!....

dizziblonde

martafdz - go look up the fearless formula feeder's blog, for the FFF Friday posts - there are so many women out there who couldn't for whatever reason (slap anyone who sits there smugly and mutters the 1-2% statistic with the weapon of your choosing). For what it's worth - we had to make the choice to save my sanity... prem baby, just wasn't getting breastfeeding at all - and I was really crumbling having to live on a hospital ward (where their stated policy was "we don't actually care about the women in our care we're only interested in the babies") for weeks on end, with utterly no progress being made toward her getting a latch at all. After 2 weeks, and with me at absolute rock bottom, considering putting her into care to be able to leave that place (they had utterly NO provision for me to leave the ward short of essentially dumping the baby in the ward corridor in the hope one of the staff would hear her and give a stuff if she cried), one of the staff (an absolute angel who understood how screwed up the system was for those babies leaving NICU with their nursing care fobbed off totally onto parents - she'd been through it herself) risked her job to just let me know the likely difference in timescales between us leaving bottle and breastfeeding - another 2-3 weeks or so, so I asked to try a bottle to feed her expressed milk... her feeds at that point were up to something like 36ml required - and she took 12 ml, and I cried with utter relief that she'd actually FED and it was the first visible sign of progress. Long story cut short - within 3 or so days of this - they were talking about taking her nose feed tube out and seeing how she coped and possibly going home.

Went home expressing, on domperidone to increase supply (since found out the controversy regarding possible side/health effects of that - information witheld from me by the NHS totally) but it gradually dwindled and the motor on my breast pump died... gave it to when she was the equivalent of full-term and she still couldn't latch, and the hospital and NICU in particular had given no help other than "nipple shields" muttered down the phone to me, the community help really didn't have a clue about how to support someone feeding a baby whose head was massively outsized by my left boob (hell they'd joked about prem babies and small dolls in the breastfeeding classes), we didn't have the money to pay for private lactation consultants or anything like that... so I took the hint from the borked breast pump (Avent you suck btw - well you didn't, that was the problem) and we swapped to formula - which, considering it's viewed as the source of all evil, and likely to mean I was some kind of woman who couldn't bond with her child, has led to a prem low birth weight baby now being 75th centile on her ACTUAL age on both her height and weight (so, despite me worrying constantly - she ain't obese, she's perfectly in proportion since dad's very tall) and utterly turning the corner from her crappy start. Yes, she has suspected asthma - but she'd have that anyway - it genetically runs very strongly down both our families and I'm pretty sure she'll have outgrown it by the time she starts school... better that than a mother who wanted to throw herself out of a window at the hell she was going through, and better that than a mother who was constantly offloading the baby onto everyone else so she could get back and sit listening to the incessant breast pump noise.

More to being a parent than having a pair of lactating boobs - despite what the internet keyboard warriors say.

choccielover

martafdz wrote: »

Hi!!! I guess I'm a recent addition to the thread, my little baby girl was born on the 13th at 7am and 6.13lb. Unfortunately, I've been having problems breastfeeding, the midwife said I am not producing enough quick enough, so I have Been "snack feeding" my baby wirhiut knowing, by feeding her little feeds every hour or almost continuously for hours. They weighted her yesterday and apparently she's lost 14% of weight, so we've been put on formula and bf. However, no matter how many times I tried to give her the breast after that first bottle, she's just.not interested. She knows my breast means some work and maybe empty cheeks anyway, so.she's just ignoring them
I just feel something has been taken away from me, despite being good she's now feeding and having seen the difference in behaviour. I felt really bad, I know I should not feel guilty, but thinking I've been depriving her of food without knowing, makes me sad and emotional. Anyone using formula here??

Martafdz, I am so sorry your bf journey isn't going as you hoped. Are there any bf peer supporters in your area? Or a bf group you could go to for some advice and tips from other bf mums who have been there and done that. In my experience the mw's were not the most helpful when it came to bf'ing. I had latch issues which were eventually resolved by a days one on one with a peer supporter who I couldn't be more thankful to.
I don't want to patronise so please forgive me if it comes over as such but the first things that came to mind when I read your post were
- is the latch right, it's bloody tricky to get the hang of but once it clicks it just works from then on. You should see babies cheeks filling with milk and them swallowing too so you can tell they are getting a mouth full.
- some babies just like to eat little and often, my DD was 4-5 hours and lost exactly 10% of her weight. I have friends who fed every 1-2 hours for the first few weeks though, each baby is different and has their own schedule. My advice would be to just go with it. Once you are sure they are latched on correctly (even if your OH has to help initially) just go with the flow. I used to go to bed with a new DVD in the player every night then watch a bit of the film every time she woke for a feed, I got through all 8 Harry potters :rotfl:
- express express express if your supply isn't enough at the moment. It will encourage your supply to increase as its a demand system, the more baby wants, the more you produce.

But finally, if you feel that formula is actually working better for you, that you can see baby thriving on it and its a sense of relief given the stress you have had over bf then it's ok to stick with that. Obviously you don't need my, or anyone else's permission to FF your baby, but I just feel such a downer is put on it that women need to be told its ok to make that choice.

I BF, I have for almost 10 months now and am really happy with the choice I made and would encourage anyone to try it, with the understanding its not always an easy journey to begin with. But ultimately I am pro choice, no one has the right to tell a woman she shouldn't FF, or make her feel bad for doing so.

Good luck with whatever route you choose, you are a super mummy xx

Choccie

serendisglair

martafdz wrote: »

Hi!!! I guess I'm a recent addition to the thread, my little baby girl was born on the 13th at 7am and 6.13lb. Unfortunately, I've been having problems breastfeeding, the midwife said I am not producing enough quick enough, so I have Been "snack feeding" my baby wirhiut knowing, by feeding her little feeds every hour or almost continuously for hours. They weighted her yesterday and apparently she's lost 14% of weight, so we've been put on formula and bf. However, no matter how many times I tried to give her the breast after that first bottle, she's just.not interested. She knows my breast means some work and maybe empty cheeks anyway, so.she's just ignoring them
I just feel something has been taken away from me, despite being good she's now feeding and having seen the difference in behaviour. I felt really bad, I know I should not feel guilty, but thinking I've been depriving her of food without knowing, makes me sad and emotional. Anyone using formula here??

Please don't beat yourself up ....feeding is hard work and frustrating as its something you can't control.
If you want her to still breast feed then you could maybe try the otherway roud? boob then bottle?

If you're fine with not breastfeeding and want to switch to formula thendon't stress about it - Happy mum = happy baby thats all that matters. Your LO has had the colostrum which is the really important bit.

My LO was bf for 3 weeks and had a formula top up at night for 2 of those and maintained his weight just because I wasn't making enough quick enough.....we switched to formula and we were both happier.

Don't feel guilty about depriving her of food as it was beyond your control and I doubt they will remember later!

if you want to carry on with bf then get as much help as you can and try everything then at the end of the day if it doesn't work you know you've given it your best shot..

hope that comes across ok and is of some use

seren

Gillyx

Sorry just checking in quickly. Will come back later though. Agree I'd go with boob and then bottle and try and offer before baby is worked up. If you are looking for some pro breast feeding help the analytical armadillo is pretty good as is Kelly mom.

I found that the minute I offered a bottle my boy was even less interested in the breast as it was just too much like hard work for him.

Skin to skin as often as possible, will help boost your supply and expressing after a feed.

I didnt manage to breast feed at all so I'm not someone who would force it on anyone but if it's something you really want to do, fight for it, I wish I had

Would second whoever said to see if you could get a breast feeding support worker or something. I know a lady who supplemented with formula but is now exclusively breast feeding il get her to come on xx

martafdz

Thank you thank you very much, I feel better knowing it's more common than they say. I offer her the boob first but since she tried the bottle she won't even look at it or have a go. I tried to express but after 5min there was nothing coming out, and I felt very frustrated and stopped. In the 5 days following birth she would ask for food constantly and only would fall sleep on the lap. She was screaming and getting out of breath constantly, we though she had a bad digestion as she stopped pooping the meconium on day 3 and didn't get a poo again, plus got those red crystals. Since the formula,last evening, she has filled another two nappies with meconium, had a normal poo this morning and we have nit heard her cry once other than to sat she's awake and wants food. She didn't even mind the nappy changing, which she couldn't stand before. My DH says not to worry about the BF, we were both formula fed and turned out ok. I was a 30 week preterm baby, and my mum never had the choice. I don't have allergies or anything like that, and I'm generally in great health, I have a condition that my mum has, so it's nothing to do with BF.
I'll try to express again today for 20min, as the mw said, and see if I can bottle feed her that. Seeing the amount she needs, I don't definitely produce a fraction of that. Last night I would not produce anything at all. How long until the breast stops producing milk after stopping or reducing intake? I was so frustrated and emotional last night that I gave up and did not try at every feed to express.
She's definitely happier, she's had 7oz in 12h, day 6. Not sure if that's enough, I think she needs even more, like an oz an hour? But it's an improvement, I think. If I manage to express, I'll be only losing the close contact that BF gives you, although I guess I could have skin to skin instead. If I don't manage to express, idk... I guess I won't have the choice. Still makes me feel rubbish, though. I was the only one to complain at the antenatal class about how much pressure they put in mums and that they were not considering special circumstances like people on medication/treatment , people with mastectomy, etc, ... and then now I feel like I'm failing my baby.

Thank you again for the advice. I find in these forums not only great tips and useful information, but also great emotional support. Thank you.

turtlemoose

Marta I too was told my baby had lost too much weight and that I must give formula. In fact, I was actually told by a paediatrician that if I continued to breastfeed then I was selfish and my baby would end up in intensive care with kidney failure, and it would be my fault, as he wasn't getting enough.

Due to the enormous guilt trip, I allowed 60ml of formula to be given. I had to get the midwife to feed him at I was just sobbing so much I couldn't even hold him. She cup fed him while I watched and cried.

I decided I wasn't comfortable with formula and wanted to carry on breastfeeding. I was exclusively expressing at the time as my baby was ill and still in hospital. I told them where to stick it and got some decent BFing advice, and here we are at 28 weeks, still going strong.

Have you had any proper support? I don't mean a half hearted midwife, I mean an IBCLC or a peer supporter or similar?

I appreciate bubs is only what, 6 days old? You may not have time to do a lot of googling....if you can tell me where you are (by pm if you don't want to post on here?) I will search online for a support group near you, if you don't already know one. If you know a BFing support group - go go go!!

You need to make sure your latch is right, even a minor adjustment can make the world of difference. And a real person to show you is much better than reading about it (although reading is great too!)

Are you feeding on demand? It's exhausting, but your supply is still establishing, and the way that works is feed feed feed - maybe every hour, maybe hours on end - let your baby be the guide. It's hard work at the start but worth it in the end.

Gilly is right, boob first, bottle after. HOWEVER babies have a very strong suck reflex. If you stimulate their soft palate (roof of mouth towards the back), then they will suck. Not because they want to or because theyre hungry but because it's a reflex. Soooo....you could have a breastfed baby who apparently "guzzles" a bottle of formula after a feed....however it could be that you're just stimulating the suck reflex, not that they are staving.

Strip off and strip your baby off, get as much skin to skin as possible. Go to bed for the next few days, get OH to bring you food me drink....Just have lots of skin to skin cuddles and lots f access to boob for baby - it will trigger the hormones your body needs to produce milk, and it will help your baby figure out mummy is there and food is there etc.

Gillyx

It's so hard, my boy wouldn't latch at all and I remember being in floods of tears, he would be screaming too, trying to get him to latch, it's still fresh in my memory even though it was almost a year ago. Even now if I over think it I get myself upset.

It's what suits you all that is best, I can say don't let it upset you until I'm blue in the face, but I know it won't make a blind bit of difference. Over time it has faded with me, and I know my monster is happy healthy and thriving do what suits you all as as family. Hugs xxxx

jediquigley

Yay for Noah crawling, it's so exciting when they learn new things! And brill re the sleeping turtle. I like the technique of getting him to self sooth, I need some of that lol my boy is getting heavy (15lbs) I can't rock him to sleep forever. At what kind of age did people use these techniques?

Breastfeeding, it's hard but if you really want to do it gt the support and you can. My boy wouldn't latch at all managed to get him latched with a breast sheild at 5 days then directly on boob at 6 weeks. Medela calma teat is the best one to use as its closest to bfing, they have to work for the milk. We had massive weight gain problems and I ended up feeding plus expressing 4 times a day for a couple of weeks to up my supply, now his weight is fine and I am expressing twice a day. My little guy is 19 weeks on sat, will breastfeed to 6 months hopefully longer.

I think you really need the support of family to bf if you are having problems. I spoke with a woman at a breastfeeding cafe who gave up for a week and was still able to go back to it. My husband mentioned the other day how amazing it is that Nialls growth has been all down to my milk. Love it.

Laura

katiechoc_2

Marta don't forget that the amount you can express isn't a true reflection of how much bubs is actually getting - a baby is always going to be more effective at nursing than a pump. I've never had much luck with expressing but when I feed him directly there's enough there. He can just get it out better iykwim. Hope you're doing ok this afternoon?

The one day I could have done with monkey having a good nap he slept for all of 15 minutes so I've not got my work even started. Could be a late night for me - going to a mum friend's for dinner tomorrow and I'm not missing that because I've got work to finish! She said she might get crackers as well