water softner help in chosing and is this true

moonrakerz

Start here:

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSearch=true&fh_search=water+softener&x=0&y=0

The trouble is with buying a water softener is that it is a happy hunting ground for "sharks". Rather like double glazing/conservatories and bathrooms - beware !

Most of these "sharks" will tell you that you need a twin cylinder metered model.
Rubbish !
A single cylinder non metered unit functions just as well and will cost half the price to buy. They also cost less to run as they use granular salt which is MUCH cheaper than the special block salt needed for many of the expensive models. The only slight disadvantage is that they need an electricity supply in many cases.
All ion exchange softeners of what ever make will use the same amount of salt over a period of time to soften water of the same hardness. Another con trick is to say that their model uses less salt than the competition - a blatant lie, I'm afraid.

I have had a softener for over 30 years in various houses - all single cylinder.

Super_Mario_3

Once you get below a cetrain price try not to be too temtped by anything too cheap, such as softeners where you will be tied to one manufacturer for any spares and support in the future.
A single cylinder softener based on a Fleck or Autotrol valve will be bullet proof reliable and relatively efficient. Alternatively a Tapworks system could be quite good, although you may need to get it serviced a bit more frequently than a Fleck or Autotrol system (although I have known Tapworks go on for 6 or 7 years with no problem).
Given my experience with servicing units I would (at all costs) avoid Waterside, Aqua Dial, modern Permutits, and modern Monarchs.

Hope this helps?

Tizzi

Moonrakerz and Super Mario, thank you both for your help. Much appreciated! :beer:

moonrakerz

Super_Mario wrote: »

Once you get below a cetrain price try not to be too temtped by anything too cheap, such as softeners where you will be tied to one manufacturer for any spares and support in the future.

In my 30 years of softener use I have NEVER had to repair or call on the manufacturer for support.
The only maintenance is to clean out the salt tank every couple of years.

Super_Mario_3

moonrakerz wrote: »

In my 30 years of softener use I have NEVER had to repair or call on the manufacturer for support.
The only maintenance is to clean out the salt tank every couple of years.

You've obviously not bought a new Waterside unit in the last 12 years then..good choice!

You're right, most decent softeners should last a lifetime and even then quite a few people change their old units when with abit of TLC they could be reconditioned and give 10 years more life.

rjfr66

Hi all, I'm new to MSE, and this is my first thread. Thank you to those who have contributed - best thing I've found on the web by far (Moonrakerz esp thank you).

I balked yesterday at a quote for £1350 for a Twintec S3 installed - hence it is my research that led me here.

Would I be nearish the mark if I summarised as:

1) If you want a water softener that will be cheap, effective and reasonably straight forward - a single cylinder, electric job will do fine (£500 top end, B&Q and a host of other suppliers). It is extremely unlikely you will ever notice the lack of a second cylinder.

2) A dual cylinder non-electric softener may please those who really value convenience over £, in that you don't need to be near electricity supply, if installed properly you can forget about it apart from salt (ie if you go on hols for 2 weeks it won't replenish unnecessarily) & you can use block salt which may be argued to be easier. Kinetico or Crown/Twintec are top end but reliable suppliers - see my price £1k or above - or direct bought for £600.

3) There is a ton of nonsense around, and not wishing to offend anyone on my first ever post, certain points made in this thread are clearly rubbish (and funnily enough match verbatim the sales pitch I heard yesterday).

To attempt to add value here, for those who are interested:

If you only want limescale removed you can try this link (given to me today by my neighbour) - scalewatcherdotcodotuk. No credence given by me - I am learning by the minute.

If you are interested in the connection to skin conditions (eczema esp.) - try this "swet-trialdotcodotuk" - a clinical trial being run by the University of Nottingham - and the BBC website that explains it "newsdotbbcdotcodotuk/1/hi/health/7820081".

Not allowed to post links yet - I'm too new!

Thanks all

Super_Mario_3

Hi rjfr66,

You're pretty spot on here; there are quite a few advantages in a twin cylinder but equally you'll get pretty close with a good sized and correctly set up single cylinder. Try and get a metered unit as you can then go on holiday and leave it and it won't use any salt un-necessarily. Like most things in life you do get what you pay for but it is certainly a case of diminishing returns the more costly you get, bit like cars, you can drive to Edinburgh in a £7K Fiat or a £70K Merc; you pays your money you takes your choice.

If you can find a Genus advertised anywhere these are very very good and can be found relatively cheaply on the web. Probably won't find them in a B&Q though, although you might find them in a smaller plumbers merchant.

Personally I'd avoid the Scalewatcher route though; world of difference between that and a softener, would be like trying to get to Edinburgh on a 20 year old 50cc moped!

cardinalbiggles

Move to Scotland, problem sorted

moonrakerz

peshi wrote: »

Before buying a Water Softener check it has been independently tested and complies to BS 14743.

Once you experience Kinetico water you wont go back.
I'm not tied to Kinetico, I just appreciate the good comments from Kinetico customers. They are reliable and also trouble free.

People on this site don't give good advise. As I said I'm independent and not tied to any manufacturer.

They just cost twice as much to buy and more to run because they use block salt

-FACT !

PS: and the profit margin is higher of course.

Matt_Filterman

Hi all.
I'm new to this thread but dealt with softeners for the last 15 years.
My rule of thumb is if it's got Fleck, Autotrol or Clack written on it it, will probably last for years with no maintenance. For a standard domestic residence you should only need to pay £350 for a timed softener (my personal preference as they are simpler and more reliable over time) and £450 for a volume controlled softener. Installation should cost between £125 and £250 depending on complexity. Only consider non electric softeners if you don't have an electrical supply.
In general moonrakerz advice seems to be sensible.
Please note these are my own personal views based on many years of experience in the industry, once working for the big boys and now for the last few years running my own show.