water softner help in chosing and is this true

Doc_N

peshi wrote: »

The problem boiler manufactures have is some softeners leak salt to service.
You need to make sure your softener conforms to BS14743.
This is were the Kinetico 2020c performs well as it doesn't leak salt to service. It has a counter concurrent high pressure soft water back wash. This makes sure all the excess salt used for regeneration has been flushed away properly from all areas of the tanks and resin beads.

Worcester Bosch seem to take the view that all softeners should be avoided with condensing boilers (theirs have aluminium heat exchangers):

Water softeners are now commonly used, especially in hard water areas around the UK.
With a condensing boiler, if you intend to use a softener unit you must remember that due to the change in ph level, it would be unwise to fill your central heating system with such water. This will implicate the longevity of your central heating system and pipe work.
Therefore it is wise, when adding water using the filling loop to your condensing boiler, that this is fitted prior to the softener unit.


http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/homeowner/products/frequently-asked-questions/general-boiler-questions/should-i-fit-a-water-softener-to-my-boiler

Ours is fitted prior to the softener, as I imagine most will be. I'd be surprised if they make an exception of Kinetico, given the above, and I'd want it in writing from them.

THE_AMATUER

Doc_N wrote: »

Worcester Bosch seem to take the view that all softeners should be avoided with condensing boilers (theirs have aluminium heat exchangers):

Water softeners are now commonly used, especially in hard water areas around the UK.
With a condensing boiler, if you intend to use a softener unit you must remember that due to the change in ph level, it would be unwise to fill your central heating system with such water. This will implicate the longevity of your central heating system and pipe work.
Therefore it is wise, when adding water using the filling loop to your condensing boiler, that this is fitted prior to the softener unit.


.worcester-bosch.co.uk/homeowner/products/frequently-asked-questions/general-boiler-questions/should-i-fit-a-water-softener-to-my-boiler[/URL]

Ours is fitted prior to the softener, as I imagine most will be. I'd be surprised if they make an exception of Kinetico, given the above, and I'd want it in writing from them.

So you have a combi and a water softener? If Im reading their advice right they seem to be saying they are ok only if you add water to your boiler prior to the softening unit? Is that correct or am I missing the point they are making?

Doc_N

THE_AMATUER wrote: »

So you have a combi and a water softener? If Im reading their advice right they seem to be saying they are ok only if you add water to your boiler prior to the softening unit? Is that correct or am I missing the point they are making?

We don't have a combi - it's an ordinary condensing one on a pressurised system. The advice I lifted from the Worcester Bosch site related to condensing boilers generally, but presumably also relates to their combis. The problem seems to relate specifically to the aluminium heat exchangers.

The safe solution is to add water, as you say, prior to the softening unit, but I'm not sure whether this is feasible with a combi. I'm no heating expert, but with a more or less sealed system like ours it doesn't matter too much if it's fed with hard water because there's only a certain amount of scale potential in the water. If the system (and I'm not sure whether combis do this) is constantly fed with fresh hard water, the scale potential is going to be infinite.

Does that make some sort of sense? Maybe I'm missing the point too!

Doc_N

peshi wrote: »

Worcester are definitely OK with Kinetico give there technical dept a ring and they will confirm.
PH level is only lowered slightly. This is not an issue with anything.
Its the sodium level in the water the boiler manufacturers have a problem with.
Plus they will sell less boilers the more people have water softeners.
So there a little bit of conflict of interest.

If Worcester Bosch are really OK with Kinetico I'd want to have it in writing from them before risking it. The website is quite clear about softeners, and it doesn't exclude Kinetico.

Doc_N

peshi wrote: »

Doc N
The heat exchanger constantly has water passing through it. If you have hard water this will become blocked quite easily.
The best way to eliminate this problem is with a water softener.

Not so on a sealed system - ie most of them. There's only a limited quantity of calcium salts which can be released from a given amount of water, and that won't be enough to cause any problems if the water isn't constantly being replaced.

The problems come with hot water cylinders in particular, and of course appliances like washing machines, where the water is constantly being replaced. More water = more calcium salts = more scale.

Doc_N

peshi wrote: »

With regards to Worcester, ring them.
You can read stuff on the net forever and still not have the right information.

So far as this is concerned the 'right' information is what they've put on their website - that's why they put it there.

If you want to avoid warranty problems either follow their website advice or get it in writing that they somehow regard Kinetico as different! Phone calls don't help at all - unless you record them, of course.

Super_Mario_3

Hi,
I've posted before and am happy to declare myself as an anonymous water softener dealer.

If you want any free, impartial advice then feel free to ask, I won't try and sell you anything!

Tizzi

I'd really like some advice about water softeners. We will shortly be moving to a new house in a very hard water area. The new house has a gas back boiler central heating system (but with new radiators) and is on a water meter.

We are a family of two adults & two very young children, and our toddler suffers with dry itchy skin, which is part of the reason why we think a water softener will be helpful for us.

Unfortunately, we don't have a huge budget for either purchase (£700 or under, I think) or running costs, and as the house is on a meter we need a softener that's as economical with water as possible.

Is there any particular type/make/model of water softener you would think best for our situation?

Thank you very much for your help and advice.

Tizzi

Doc_N

Tizzi wrote: »

I'd really like some advice about water softeners. We will shortly be moving to a new house in a very hard water area. The new house has a gas back boiler central heating system (but with new radiators) and is on a water meter.

We are a family of two adults & two very young children, and our toddler suffers with dry itchy skin, which is part of the reason why we think a water softener will be helpful for us.

Unfortunately, we don't have a huge budget for either purchase (£700 or under, I think) or running costs, and as the house is on a meter we need a softener that's as economical with water as possible.

Is there any particular type/make/model of water softener you would think best for our situation?

Thank you very much for your help and advice.

Tizzi

I think peshi might be giving you an answer pretty soon, but you'll find some useful posts above.

Tizzi

Well, I think that model is out of our price range, so perhaps not worth Peshi replying.

I have read through the thread, and it seems like lots of resin in a metered single tank version is our best option. I was hoping that someone might have a recommendation for a softener that would be as economical for someone on metered water as possible.

For example, I can find one with '15 litres softener resin volume' that takes 84 litres of water per regeneration, or one with 10 litre softener resin volume that takes 80 litres of water per regeneration. But what I don't know, having never used a water softener, is how much difference having that extra 5 litres of softener resin will make to how often it needs to regenerate?

What are the pitfalls I need to look out for to prevent me choosing one not really suited to our needs? Is tablet salt okay or a more expensive option? Any help appreciated. :cheesy:

Thanks again!