water softner help in chosing and is this true

George_Bray

wallbash wrote: »

What is wrong about using electricity and a water softener... is it something more to go wrong

Yes, I see it as a disadvantage because it adds to the complexity - electric devices are far more likely to fail than my 100% manual system, which could last 50 years or more, perhaps. True, a few electronic components in a water softener head is not a situation much different to a washing machine or TV but, increasingly, these devices now seem to be limited to a working life of just a few years.

Doc_N

wallbash wrote: »

I think i'm about to be thrown off this forum
What is wrong about using electricity and a water softener .

Cant be danger, or we would ban washing machines /dishwashers etc
Are that expensive to run , the silly looking cable looks the same as my mobile phone charger.
Or is it something more to go wrong ..... but then I'm back to the washing machines /dishwashers

Have to agree with George_Bray that potentially there might be a bit more to go wrong with an electric softener, but in practice there's very little that does go wrong. I had a Permutit (big name at the time and now part of Siemens) electric softener back in the 80s, and it ran and ran without problem. It was still going strong when I replaced it with an Ecowater for the metering system, and that's still going strong after 15 years without any servicing or repairs whasoever.

Electricity costs are minimal, and unlike most modern devices softeners aren't stuffed full of electronics which are built to fail at some point. It's mostly simple stuff that happens to be driven by an electric motor. The non-electric softeners are probably just as likely to fail because they still require valve systems, and the only difference is that the valve system will be water-powered. It's the valve system which is most likely to fail, and if it's going to fail it will still do so whether it's driven by water or electric.

Fridges and freezers, by and large, run for years without attention - and so do electric softeners.

Beware of people on here trying to push particular brands just because they sell them and make a good commission by selling those brands.

wallbash

No fear of me pushing a brand , mine only been working for a couple of weeks
As I posted #170
I bought a Waterside MC450 ultra S

Its plugged into the mains , but how much is my softener depending on the power .
Shows a flashy time clock and tells me other vital' info . if I could be bothered .
How do I find out what operated the valves ....... do I care??

As I have posted the elec comes thru a adapter the size of a mobile phone and I have a thicker cable on my xmas lights.

Finding this thread fascinating ( must get out more) lets hope is does not put anyone off buying a water softener, be it for £500 or a lot more.

Doc_N

wallbash wrote: »

No fear of me pushing a brand , mine only been working for a couple of weeks
As I posted #170
I bought a Waterside MC450 ultra S

Its plugged into the mains , but how much is my softener depending on the power .
Shows a flashy time clock and tells me other vital' info . if I could be bothered .
How do I find out what operated the valves ....... do I care??

As I have posted the elec comes thru a adapter the size of a mobile phone and I have a thicker cable on my xmas lights.

Finding this thread fascinating ( must get out more) lets hope is does not put anyone off buying a water softener, be it for £500 or a lot more.

On the brand pushing thing, I didn't mean you. But there are sellers in here too. Your softener will use hardly any power, even when it regenerates, but no softener can take full advantage of metering information without an electrical supply to enable it to be properly monitored. That's one of the advantages of the electric type, but the sellers of the non-electric models won't mention that.

d900

i have a aqua dial soft life.
works fine does its job

moonrakerz

I've said this on this site (several times) before, and it is obviously time to say it again

Twin cylinder water softeners are a waste of money !

They are a con:- the only people who say they aren't are salesmen and those unfortunates who have shelled out a lot of money to buy one.
You wouldn't buy a car with two engines, or a TV with two screens why does anyone think a water softener with two tanks is better ?
They have ONE advantage over the normal single cylinder, that is that many of them do not require an electric supply - BUT, they cost so much more you could almost get your house re-wired for the difference in price !

I bought my first softener way back in the 70s, now on my third house and fourth softener - all single cylinder - great !

George_Bray

peshi wrote: »

George you have a nice big tank there 100lts. Good on ya.

>Most people want convenience

You're right and it costs them dearly!

>How do you rinse all the salt away?

With water! It doesn't take expensive Kinetico valves to rinse away salt.

>Your excess salt wont be good for your water using appliances.

What excess salt? I assure you there is no excess salt after my rinsing process. I can taste there's not. Your statement sounds like a typical salesman introducing bogus issues, to raise doubts and concerns in peoples' minds.

>Most boiler manufactures will invalidate you warranty.

How do you work that out? The quality of my soft water is probably higher than soft water out of your Kinetico units because I'm using 100 litres of resin and your systems only use 5 litres. In any event, my boiler is decades outside of any warranty.

>As an analogy some people think its good living in a shed
>most people understands living in a quality house is better.

I see what you mean, but I suggest your tiny 5 litre softener would be the barely-adequate shed whereas my 100 litre softener would be the quality house, surely.

>I'm all about quality

So am I. That's why I use a system which guarantess 100% high quality soft water with nothing whatsoever to go wrong (over decades).

THE_AMATUER

Hi all

I'm also interested in getting a water softener due to very hard water in my area, however I have a combi boiler and the manufacturer told me NOT to fit one as it will greatly reduce the life of the combi? I also asked my local central heating installer and they said only combis with steel heat exchangers can be used, as mine is aluminum its not recommended.

Does anyone have a combi boiler and a water softener and is there any truth to what I've been told?

thanks

THE_AMATUER

peshi wrote: »

If you buy a softener which conforms to BS 14743 your boiler manufacture wont have a problem.
For instance Worcester Bosch are fine with Kinetico, Ring there technical dept to check.

I rang the technical department for Potterton who made my combi boiler. They said because my boiler has a aluminum heat exchanger a water softener shouldn't be fitted because it will diminish the boilers life. This advice was seconded by my local Corgi registered heating engineer.

None of the water softener companies I have spoken to think its a problem though and say there is no evidence to prove water softeners damage aluminum heat exchangers !!

I don't know what to believe so if anyone has a combi boilder (with aluminum heat exchanger) and a water softener I'd be interested to hear from you.

thanks

George_Bray

THE_AMATUER wrote: »

I don't know what to believe so if anyone has a combi boilder (with aluminum heat exchanger) and a water softener I'd be interested to hear from you.

I'd be unsure what to do, like you.

Naturally soft water must contain very few minerals, i.e. it's approaching pure water and presumably that's OK for the boiler.

Hard water typically contains a fair bit of calcium carbonate. It sounds like the boiler makers think that's OK, i.e. what you have at present.

Ion exchange (proper) water softeners change the calcium carbonate to sodium carbonate, which doesn't 'gum up' or deposit on anything as far as I'm aware. That's the whole point.

So, my guess is that if this sodium carbonate is to harm the aluminium, it must have some corrosive effect on aluminium. I'd be surprised but I don't know. I guess that's all you need to determine. Perhaps you could ask the boiler makers what happens, and how/why the softened water damages the aluminium, if it really does.