was this a ghost ?

KxMx

Well, how many years have we had reliable and evolved equipment to measure these things? Isn't it a little bit arrogant to assume that, if modern science can't prove it, it isn't there? After all, germs were in the main unheard of until the Crimean war- but they had presumably, looking at records of plague and such like, been around since the dawn of time. But we didn't have the knowledge or understanding to recognise them before. I'm sure there were plenty of learned, educated men in the medical/scientific fields who dismissed germs as rubbish before the proof appeared- and that took long enough.

Humans have an awfully long way to go before we understand many things.

On the other hand, I sure would like to live in this black and white world where human knowledge is infinite and can 100% prove/disprove anything you can think of Being a medical mystery right now it sure would help!

Tropez

KxMx wrote: »

Well, how many years have we had reliable and evolved equipment to measure these things? Isn't it a little bit arrogant to assume that, if modern science can't prove it, it isn't there? After all, germs were in the main unheard of until the Crimean war- but they had presumably, looking at records of plague and such like, been around since the dawn of time. But we didn't have the knowledge or understanding to recognise them before. I'm sure there were plenty of learned, educated men in the medical/scientific fields who dismissed germs as rubbish before the proof appeared- and that took long enough.

Humans have an awfully long way to go before we understand many things.

On the other hand, I sure would like to live in this black and white world where human knowledge is infinite and can 100% prove/disprove anything you can think of Being a medical mystery right now it sure would help!

It isn't about living in "black and white" but following patterns of logic. If naturally occurring phenomena can explain the paranormal, and can be demonstrated to do so, then it can be viewed as suitable evidence in opposition to something that is pure theory with many logical boundaries that make such explanations unnecessarily complex. The simplest explanations are usually the correct ones.

If I am wrong, I am wrong but personally speaking I find that supernatural explanations for things have generally held the human race back. Attributing storms and diseases and even headaches to the work of demons and ghosts stunted the development of the species for centuries. It is the development of scientific fields that have explained the true causes for these things and has more and more proven that the supernatural has played no part.

neverdespairgirl

meritaten wrote: »

I have a firm grip on reality - but NOT a closed mind!

I like to try to be careful that my mind isn't so open that my brain falls out.

If anyone does demonstrate that ghosts exist, I'll certainly believe them. If there is evidence for it.

neverdespairgirl

Mupette wrote: »

Tell that to my gramps, he died, that night he was at the bottom of my bed stood there looking at me. I didn't imagine it, i wasn't some hysterical tart.
I saw my gramps. you can't say i didn't you werern't there.

You did indeed see your grandfather.

But what you actually saw, and why you saw it, is a completely different kettle of fish.

neverdespairgirl

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/ghost_in_my_house_an_exercise_in_self-deception/

Well, as I lay there, I heard her footsteps approaching the door. I saw the door open with exactly the same speed as always, and it opened to the same distance as usual. I expected to hear her footsteps coming into the room, but there was no such sound. (As I write this, I realize that I did not hear her footsteps. It was an after-the-fact embellishment obviously supportive of the ghost theory.)

After some mental work on that I finally realized that I didn't have to know what prompted the door to open; once I achieved that, I stopped fixating on the damned (no irony intended) event. I had made the same error that humans have made since our cave-dwelling ancestors roamed the earth. When rational explanation failed to settle the matter, they invoked spirits and magical events. Any explanation would be better than chaos and, if one could invoke the spirits, it implied power over ugly reality. And we are the genetic inheritors of what worked for survival.

**Juice**

I think no-one can tell you whether or not it was a ghost for definite because let's face it who knows whether they exist or not. However, if that's what your sis wants to believe then that's her business isn't it?

motherofstudents

Well, I have strugged through the link esuhl so thanks for that. I think the older I get the more I realise I don't know. What is supernatural ? There are things unseen but real and whereas my forebears believed that ghosts, God, afterlife etc were 'supernatural' I see them as physical phenomena which all have an explanation and obey the laws of physics. I was reading something by a physicist the other day who thinks that time does not exist (in opposition to Einstein's space-time). He says we only have 'now' and what we perceive as the passage of time is merely a series of nows. The universe being asymmetrical apparently supports this theory. Anyway, my conclusion is to lots of questions my answer is I simply don't know (but I like trying to find out).

Person_one

keystone wrote: »

Nope but then I have no reason to want to. There is no scientifically compelling evidence that such things don't or can't exist either.

Cheers.

I post this a lot, give it a read.

Russell's Teapot.

sassyblue

So sad this interesting thread has been hijacked by a few who can't bear to let people have their own views.

I've never seen anything spooky but l know FIL is a total non believer, well WAS until his wife died and he later saw her standing in the kitchen for a fleeting second. He was wide awake, couldn't understand or explain it but he now totally believes.

I wish the others who had stories to tell would come back and tell them, ignore those who are trying to put people down, think of them as being exorcised.

keystone

Person_one wrote: »

I post this a lot, give it a read.

Russell's Teapot.

Sorry no time to check your link out now but I know about the celestial teapot. The problem with your introducing that is that it takes us into the realms of philosophy rather than science which is what I thought we were discussing. From a scientific perspective I stand by what I wrote last night that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Cheers.