Advice on rejecting men....

Gavin83

fierystormcloud wrote: »

As I said, for men (some men, as they are not all they same,) to change their attitudes and their behaviour. THIS is the answer.

Women should not be afraid to run or walk in certain places, (and it's not always after dark when women get attacked by the way,) and they should be entitled to dress how they want, and wherever they want, without men attacking them, jeering, trying to belittle them, or claiming they're 'asking for it,' if they wear a short skirt.

MEN get to walk around after dark without worrying about being sexually assaulted or raped, MEN get to walk around in shorts (showing their legs,) without the fear of being hounded and called slutty, or being accused of 'asking for it,' , MEN get to travel on public transport and walk around the streets, without fear of being hounded and hit on every 5 minutes. Women should have the right to the same treatment, and the same respect.

Remember that film footage of the attractive brunette in New York (I think it was New York.) She was simply walking for around for about 8 hours, and she got hit on by dozens of men. She was dressed fairly normally, she was not making eye contact with anyone, and she was keeping herself to herself. Yet men kept hounding her, following her, demanding that she speaks to them, and generally acting like they thought it was their right to do this.

One man even said 'what's your problem, am I ugly? Am I not good enough for you?' And he kept walking alongside her, trying to intimidate her, and getting more aggressive by the second. He followed her for about 7 minutes, before storming off in a huff. I wonder how he would have behaved/reacted if it had been a lonely pathway or alley?

Some men do not like to be rejected and some men do not like it when a woman will not speak to him or even look at him, because they see it as a slur on their masculinity and their prowess. They think it's their 'right' to hit on women, and that the women should be grateful for the attention. Generally if women ARE hostile, it's because you are the 500th man to hit on her, and assume she is going to fancy you and want to date you.

So, I reiterate, it is the attitude of some MEN that needs to change.

And I know that not all men are like this, and that's why I say 'some.'

I've highlighted two parts of your post here. While it is of course the attitude that should change this isn't an easy process and until it does people need to protect themselves from crime.

If I started a topic on here saying I was walking through a council estate, talking on my iPhone and checking the time on my rolex when I was mugged how many people do you think would blame me saying I should have been more careful? Probably quite a few. While of course it wouldn't have been my fault I could have avoided the situation. Same applies in your case. While women should be free to walk through quiet dark areas at night or down alleyways, it's probably best to avoid it. Is it really worth getting raped just to prove a point?

As for the second point I highlighted, while men are (mostly) free from the threat of rape we are constantly under the threat of being beaten up or even killed just so another man can feel more manly. I wouldn't walk through some parks on my own at night so I can avoid getting a knife stuck in my chest. Everyone has to be careful just for different reasons.

Also while men certainly aren't hounded to the degree women are we aren't free from sexual assault. I've certainly been groped by women and other men in the past.

fierystormcloud

supermassive wrote: »

Comments about "women shouldn't have to _____" are hilarious and narrow minded.

People shouldn't be psychopaths, people shouldn't be completely mental and rape. But they are and they do.

I'd compare it to a vicious dog. You tell children not to reach through fences to stroke a dog, right? This is the same. You're simply saying "why can't I reach through the fence? I should be allowed!" It's childish. Grow up just a little bit and you'll see that the world is dangerous and as much as you'd like it to be fluffy and sweet, it isn't and isn't ever going to be, so get used to it and take care of yourself, make sure you're being safe because if you're not then you're inviting the bad right to your front door.

As for the topic at hand, it's not difficult - people in my family have done it for years - she needs to make herself unapproachable. Public transport is a time for a miserable face, a pretty abbrasive attitude and no time for people at all. Perverts won't engage or even try if they come across this because they'll think they will get a punch in the face.

supermassive wrote: »

This is both sexist and untrue. Maybe you should look at the world for 5 minutes before jumping on the "women are victims!" bandwagon.

I'm a man. I've been sexually assaulted in public, I've been raped, I've had my drinks spiked, I've been stalked and beaten up.

Or maybe I'm a woman, eh?

Ooooooooooookay.

Are you feeling OK dude?

Seriously, you talk about 'acting the victim' and then you come out with the kind of stuff you are claiming in the second quoted post!

No-one is acting the victim, (except YOU) and are you seriously trying to convince me (or anyone else) that men have the same fears and worries in life as women do, with worrying about being attacked and assaulted, and judged and letched at? And are you actually trying to claim that men are hit on constantly too, and cannot go anywhere without fear of being hassled?

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quidsy

Londoner born & a female to boot. Older now so less likely to get unwanted attention but still occasionally attract a nutter.

My advice & the advice given to me by my dad when I was a young teen: When walking or travelling alone, look like you will smack a !!!!! out. Look harsh, don't smile, don't react beyond a withering look if that & never, ever engage in conversation. Just ignore & snarl if needed. Don't walk anywhere looking lost or distracted, keep phones in pockets & if wearing ear buds only one in or both in but music off, it will look like you can't hear but you can. A book is a great device to ignore people with.

On transport, sit near the driver, get up & physically move if the ignore/snarl doesn't work, make a very loud & clear, "don't touch me" if they do & always, always walk as if you will swing for someone if they start on you. I was a very pretty, attractive & well figured young woman growing up in the city, I also travelled alone the whole world & these tips have held me in good stead.

A lot of women especially young ones, laugh or giggle in nerves or smile to appease & this unfortunately is a come on for the dense men out there, so get her to train herself not to smile, laugh in nerves or even make eye contact with the harassers. I wish her well.

Mojisola

quidsy wrote: »

A lot of women especially young ones, laugh or giggle in nerves or smile to appease & this unfortunately is a come on for the dense men out there, so get her to train herself not to smile, laugh in nerves or even make eye contact with the harassers.

I went on a women's safety course years ago run by the police.

They showed a series of short videos - a young woman hunched over, nervously looking round; another with her head held high, striding along; another with earphones in, looking totally absorbed in the music; another obviously drunk, staggering around; others in a small group; and so on.

They got us to list which ones we would choose if we were planning to attack or rob them - it was obvious which ones were going to be the easy targets.

They'd set up the scenarios after having discussions with offenders about how they chose their victims.

ifstar

j.e.j. wrote: »

Women get this a lot on the underground in Japan. Gropers and perverts looking up their skirts. Unfortunately, here in the UK women can't carry spray or anything to defend themselves, should the attack get serious, like they can in other countries.

You might not be able to carry pepper spray etc but you can still carry hairspray or similar. A faceful of that won't be pleasant and perfectly legal.

duchy

AdmiralX wrote: »

Interesting comment. A few people though today started using "metro" alternatively to tube or underground. Although originally described the Parian lines, the nomenclature was adopted internationally.

The earlier trucks were all of 'em deep down: subterranean. So we had only "tube" and "underground" then; but the lines extended on the surface and overground.

No dear Metro is the free newspaper you find left in the carriages !

Please don't pretend to be a Londoner when you clearly aren't (definition of Londoner person who was born or has lived in London long enough tio fully integrate ). NO Londoner calls the tube the Metro !!!

Just because you haven't seen men openly grope women on public transport does not mean women are not harassed (or indeed groped in crowded carriages) and I have to wonder why you would claim otherwise. Ask any woman who commutes in London (regardless of age or appearance) and they will have a story to tell you .........but to be fair the same can be said of say Rome too for example and many other capital cities.

I agree it's her upbringing - that she doesn't want to be rude as she's a nice girl. Well sorry but even nice girls need to develop their death stare and an abrupt tone to say shortly "Not interested" even then some of these idiots will persist as any attention is better than none to them. Because London is so vast and impersonal they think they can do it. The trick is simply to act like they aren't there and eventually they give up- Respond in any way and it is taken as encouragement.

If I remember correctly she's only been in London since September - but she will grow a "thicker skin" and find her own way to deal with these pathetic losers.

I was born in London - and worked in central London from the age of sixteen to thirty - after a while you tend to not even notice anymore and it's just another annoying aspect of travelling by public transport and no more significant than the passenger in front of you who can't manage to work the exit gate at the station (usually when you are rushing as you are late for work) or the people who insist on standing rather than walking on the left side of the escalator

Mojisola

duchy wrote: »

I agree it's her upbringing - that she doesn't want to be rude as she's a nice girl. Well sorry but even nice girls need to develop their death stare and an abrupt tone to say shortly "Not interested" even then some of these idiots will persist as any attention is better than none to them. Because London is so vast and impersonal they think they can do it.

And, unfortunately, there are still men who think that 'No' means 'Yes' when a woman says it.

duchy

Mojisola wrote: »

I went on a women's safety course years ago run by the police.

They showed a series of short videos - a young woman hunched over, nervously looking round; another with her head held high, striding along; another with earphones in, looking totally absorbed in the music; another obviously drunk, staggering around; others in a small group; and so on.

They got us to list which ones we would choose if we were planning to attack or rob them - it was obvious which ones were going to be the easy targets.

They'd set up the scenarios after having discussions with offenders about how they chose their victims.

This is very true - walk with confidence and you scare most of these idiots off . Body language really counts.

It might be worth her having a word with the student union and the possibility of a seminar on "Travelling confidently in London" she won't be the only one who feels this way and the Union may be very happy to arrange and fund such a session for their students.

supermassive

fierystormcloud wrote: »

Ooooooooooookay.

Are you feeling OK dude?

Seriously, you talk about 'acting the victim' and then you come out with the kind of stuff you are claiming in the second quoted post!

No-one is acting the victim, (except YOU) and are you seriously trying to convince me (or anyone else) that men have the same fears and worries in life as women do, with worrying about being attacked and assaulted, and judged and letched at? And are you actually trying to claim that men are hit on constantly too, and cannot go anywhere without fear of being hassled?

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Men are not invincible. These things happen to men as well as women and to claim that they don't and that I - as a victim of this multiple times in my life - don't have any clue what I'm talking about is absurd. Maybe you should look at young men's rape statistics, attack statistics, murder statistics and then re-evaluate your disgusting attitude.

"All men are pigs, all men are immune to sex-based attacks, men are the people that need to change" can't you understand how utterly ridiculous you sound? Ill informed, narrow minded, uneducated bigots should not claim to know what they clearly do not.

I dare say a big butch woman who can clearly handle herself gets alot less than a petite pretty young girl. The problem being, this is the same for men - whether sexual or not.

VestanPance

Are some people here seriously turning this into another pathetic men vs women argument?