Atheist and the nativity

GracieP

erichamster wrote: »

They aren't doing it because of religion either. Religion doesn't have a monopoly on morality, if we got our morals from the bible we'd all be homophobic, misogynistic, sado-masochistic racists with slaves.
Thankfully are morals are evolved, just like the rest of us.

I'm a former aid worker, someone who has risked my personal safety, and on occasion my life, to help others. Someone who later settled down to a lowish paid NGO job because I needed my daily work to benefit those most in need rather than make me bags of cash. And I'm an atheist. I met my husband while he was volunteering with a project I worked on. He's also an atheist. Religious faith has nothing to do with charity and kindness.

The fact is I have a sense of empathy, just like all pack animals. And I have a very, very active imagination like many humans which heightens my sense of empathy. The first time I was in a dangerous situation where many people I worked with had been badly injured and imprisoned, one person killed and I was beaten by the military all I wanted to do was get out of where I was. On the journey out of that country I was desperately holding it together until I crossed the border, where I broke down sobbing. I was so glad to be safe. But for years afterwards I couldn't sleep whenever I remembered it because I couldn't stop imagining all of those people who will never, ever make it across a safe border, people who's situations are infinitely worse than anything I ever experienced and people who have to worry not only for themselves but for their families. That is why people help those who need it, even at personal cost to themselves, because they can imagine what suffering is like and don't want others to experience pain. Because knowing that others suffer hurts them. It's a simple evolutionary instinct in those animals whose survival is dependant on societal groups.

ktb

fawd1 wrote: »

Faith is also demonstrable in every day life, you're just not looking for it.Look at the people that spend their days handing out food to the poor, building homes etc. They aren't all doing it for the money. And when someone can disprove or prove faith clinically then I'd like to know.

That's not a demonstration of Faith! That is a demonstration of kindness, empathy and a desire to help your fellow man. How dare you suggest that people with Faith have the monopoly on any of those things.

You 100% do not need religion to provide morality, plenty of atheists are extremely good citizens and benefit mankind in numerous ways.

Also with regards to your point about clinical proof.... Neuroscientists have in fact located a part of the brain (the God-spot) that is activated in people with Faith and doesn't show any activity in the brains of Atheists, which implies some humans are hardwired to believe and other just won't, no matter what.

To me this suggests that it is just a freak of physics, chemistry and biology and you could say that it 'proves' the existence of Faith in purely brain chemistry terms - the same way that Love exists as chemistry.

Person_one

fawd1 wrote: »

Faith is also demonstrable in every day life, you're just not looking for it.Look at the people that spend their days handing out food to the poor, building homes etc. They aren't all doing it for the money. And when someone can disprove or prove faith clinically then I'd like to know.

Pssst...some people who do good things aren't doing them because of 'faith', lots of atheists are good people too!

fawd1

dirtysexymonkey wrote: »

not god - religion. god has very little to do with religion.;)

you still dont get it, do you?

when religion is used as an excuse for bigotry, murder, discrimination etc etc, then you can bet your !!!! that itll be attacked.

ARGHHHH, you still don't get it do you. Religion may be used as an excuse for these things, but that doesn't mean it actually condones them. it's like the man who says it's his parents fault he became a mass murderer. He might use them as an excuse, but unless they turned round and said hey, go kill a couple of people, that's a great idea, it's not their fault. (actually even if they said that, I'd argue personal choice)

fawd1

Person_one wrote: »

Pssst...some people who do good things aren't doing them because of 'faith', lots of atheists are good people too!

Agreed, one hundred percent. I'm just trying to point out that not everyone with faith is evil. Some, the ones that are in fact following their scriptures, do these things because they should, and because they believe God wants them to.

looby75

dirtysexymonkey wrote: »

i didnt say they did. not all religious people are here.;)

and no. id be here all night!:rotfl:

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:in other words it was a cheap shot with nothing to back it up

dirtysexymonkey

fawd1 wrote: »

ARGHHHH, you still don't get it do you. Religion may be used as an excuse for these things, but that doesn't mean it actually condones them. it's like the man who says it's his parents fault he became a mass murderer. He might use them as an excuse, but unless they turned round and said hey, go kill a couple of people, that's a great idea, it's not their fault. (actually even if they said that, I'd argue personal choice)

but it does condone them! what part of 'gay people are the biggest threat to mankind in the world today' makes you think it doesnt condone bigotry and discrimination? its hardly a bloody testimonial is it?!

KxMx

Well I consider myself a Christian (although experiencing a severe crisis of faith right now), and I tend to believe in a mixture of God and science. As the earth is clearly much older than the bible tells us etc. For those of you who recall my previous post, I was forced into church for 2 years. As soon as we moved back I didn't go again but I have developed a faith on my own without any outside influences in the time since.

But those who deny any form of God because there is no proof are being a little arrogant to assume science in 2011 can explain everything in the universe. Science is only as good as the knowledge and equipment of the time and I sure think we have a couple hundred years of progress before we know more about the world. Medical science is a good example, there are hundreds if not thousands of conditions where not much is known about the how/why they occur, they are only identified by symptoms and in many cases a certain amount of guesswork is applied to the diagnosis and treatment. I find it shocking that in 2011 chemotherapy has not been evolved from killing all cells into a tailored "smart" therapy killing cancerous cells and avoiding the healthy ones. But we are just not there yet.

Human arrogance I guess Just like people who have no respect the weather has power over them and go for walks along the sea wall with the dog in gales, or the surfer who went surfing (and died) during the USA east coast hurricane/tropical storm. Or the guy in Scotland who said last year "the transport minister should pay" for the disruption caused by the snow. Despite it being well forecast and quite possible for said guy to leave earlier, take another route, see if he could work from home that day, make sure he had torch, blankets, water etc in his car.

fawd1

ktb wrote: »

That's not a demonstration of Faith! That is a demonstration of kindness, empathy and a desire to help your fellow man. How dare you suggest that people with Faith have the monopoly on any of those things.

You 100% do not need religion to provide morality, plenty of atheists are extremely good citizens and benefit mankind in numerous ways.
.

I have at no point suggested that you need faith to be a moral person. AGAIN, I'm an agnostic. I HAVE NO FAITH, I just believe that in the main, faith is a good thing that drives people to be better to their fellow man.

ktb

fawd1 wrote: »

Agreed, one hundred percent. I'm just trying to point out that not everyone with faith is evil. Some, the ones that are in fact following their scriptures, do these things because they should, and because they believe God wants them to.

Are you saying that religious people are doing evil things because they believe that God wants them to? Or are you saying that religious people are doing good things because they believe God wants them to? Your post is confusing.

Personally i'm far happier doing the things I do because I want me to! Only have myself to answer to that way The buck stops right here!