Atheist and the nativity

fawd1

dirtysexymonkey wrote: »

its not about that. when your religion impacts negatively on my life and the lives of others then i will rip out the comfort you feel from that religion in a heartbeat if i am able.

why should you gain comfort from something that brings misery to others?

what misery does Christianity, in fact any religion bring to you? seriously? does anyone here agree with religious crusdaes? I think we all agree live and let live. If a nativity scene impacts badly on your life, then maybe you should rethink your life before religion.

erichamster

fawd1 wrote: »

actually the idea that the Old Testament being the first draft is not my idea. It's the basis of Christianity (and I loved your comment about God telling me, especially as I'm a non believer). As for the idea of children being with sin, even the pope dismissed that idea.

The fact is, that the bible (like all holy books) was written by men, men are fallible, which means they will GET THINGS WRONG. None of what is written in the bible, or Quran or any other holy book is perfect. Faith is just that. Faith. A belief in something you can't prove. Why you feel the need to disprove something only to hurt others is beyond me. Glad you enjoy feeling superior though, I bet it makes the others you hurt by taking away their hope feel better

If its so wrong, why bother with it at all? Also it's all they have to base their religion on so if that's wrong I don't know what they're going to do.

How exactly have I hurt others? I've criticised and pointed out the fallacious nature of their beliefs that I'm sure they'd heard before. No one has a right not to be offended if that's what you mean. Are they really all crying now because of what I've said? What do you mean?

Also if a faith is just a belief in something without proof, why isn't holocaust denial a faith, with all the respect that apparently would deserve?

Torry_Quine

starrystarry wrote: »

I'm not trying to remove it or change it, I don't care if people believe in religion.

I didn't mean to imply you'd said something factually incorrect (apologies if it read like that), it was Torry Quine that was spouting nonsense.

It may be nonsense to you but it isn't very tolerant of you to use that term.

I was not saying something factually incorrect but the Christian viewpoint of how things could be if people followed God and His laws. I appreciate that you don't believe but you could be less confrontational!

starrystarry

fawd1 wrote: »

what misery does Christianity, in fact any religion bring to you?

Well it's directly responsible for this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1cG-4YSyhQ

fawd1

dirtysexymonkey wrote: »

its not to make a point - you fundamentally misunderstand that.

why is this mix of faith and religion good if it brings some comfort, but not bad when it brings misery to so many others?

is it because they are not worthy?

not at all, it's because of free will. Great if you know what to do with it, but not great if you don't. If you don't believe in a God, then you can't keep blaming him, you'd just have to accept that some people are capable of horrific things, with or without god

daska

fawd1 wrote: »

actually the idea that the Old Testament being the first draft is not my idea. It's the basis of Christianity (and I loved your comment about God telling me, especially as I'm a non believer). As for the idea of children being with sin, even the pope dismissed that idea.

The fact is, that the bible (like all holy books) was written by men, men are fallible, which means they will GET THINGS WRONG. None of what is written in the bible, or Quran or any other holy book is perfect. Faith is just that. Faith. A belief in something you can't prove. Why you feel the need to disprove something only to hurt others is beyond me. Glad you enjoy feeling superior though, I bet it makes the others you hurt by taking away their hope feel better

Actually it would be fair to claim that there is no such thing as "the bible", there are different versions containing different books in different orders depending on the particular flavour of christianity that you subscribe to (greek, catholic, protestant etc). And there are the differences that result from the Hebrew bible being translated into a variety of languages (latin, greek, aramaic, arabic, coptic, ethiopic etc).

erichamster

fawd1 wrote: »

Ha! there is no evidence of love other than people saying they feel it and acting on its behalf. No different than those that say they feel faith.

Of course there is evidence of love, in general terms what about affection, generosity, compassion, not to mention the very measurable and scientific evidence associated with feelings of falling in love such as dilated pupils, a quickening heartbeat, a rush or endorphins, increased "gazing" at the object of your desire, brain scan evidence. Are you for real?

starrystarry

Torry_Quine wrote: »

It may be nonsense to you but it isn't very tolerant of you to use that term.

I was not saying something factually incorrect but the Christian viewpoint of how things could be if people followed God and His laws. I appreciate that you don't believe but you could be less confrontational!

It's not just nonsense to me, it is factually incorrect.

fawd1

erichamster wrote: »

Of course there is evidence of love, in general terms what about affection, generosity, compassion, not to mention the very measurable and scientific evidence associated with feelings of falling in love such as dilated pupils, a quickening heartbeat, a rush or endorphins, increased "gazing" at the object of your desire, brain scan evidence. Are you for real?

yep. You ever been to a decent church service? you'd see all of these things in the first half hour. OOOh, and I would also argue that effects attributed to love don't confirm it's existence. Ever heard of people being healed by faith?

ktb

jimimi wrote: »

What do atheists gain by trying to convince believers that there is no God? I can see why believers would gain from making Atheists believe, they would increase their religions following.

I am an atheist and I don't personally spend my time trying to convince people with Faith of anything. It would mostly be a losing battle as, if they won't accept arguments of rational fact, where do you go from there?! I know I don't believe and they know they do.... it is an impasse.

On a slightly separate note though, I do strongly believe that state funded education should be completely separated from Religion. I find the idea that Faith schools get state funding pretty abhorrent, especially as they are allowed to be 'selective'. Dawkins has plenty of interesting stuff to say on this subject and I highly recommend his documentaries on youtube.