Atheist and the nativity

GracieP

fawd1 wrote: »

Are you sure? you argue there is no proof for religion, there is also no proof against it. It's like love, you can't prove it exists, some people claim they don't believe in it, but plenty live their lives enriched by believing in it.

BIB: Honestly, what sort of utter twaddle is this? Of course you can prove love. Not only is it demonstrable in everyday life but it's neurologically proven to be a series of chemical and hormonal reactions in the brain, with different reactions for different types of love like parent-child love and romantic/sexual love.

As for proof against religion, to quote the recently late Hitchens; "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

starrystarry

"Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you."

(Christopher Hitchens)

fawd1

starrystarry wrote: »

And I'm not, and never will be, prepared to keep quiet if something you say is factually incorrect. E.g. natural disasters would be reduced if people behaved differently.

When did I ever say that? And I don't care about religions, in all their detail and nuances. I have an issue with people decrying faith. The simple belief that people have in something better. I can see no justification in trying to remove their faith nor change it, whatever it may be.

dirtysexymonkey

fawd1 wrote: »

Why you feel the need to disprove something only to hurt others is beyond me. Glad you enjoy feeling superior though, I bet it makes the others you hurt by taking away their hope feel better

its not about that. when your religion impacts negatively on my life and the lives of others then i will rip out the comfort you feel from that religion in a heartbeat if i am able.

why should you gain comfort from something that brings misery to others?

b_girl

onlyroz wrote: »

I was actually thinking more of American presidential campaigns - where the candidates put far more effort into slagging off their opponent than in coming up with decent policy statements of their own.

Ok, well I was just talking from my personal point of view that someone 'slinging mud' at my faith would definitely not make me change my views. I can't really comment on what effect political campaigns have on people's political persuasions.

I guess I am shocked in a way. I live amoung mainly Christians, Atheists and Muslims and have absoloutely never had anyone be at all concerened or say anything about my beliefs, nor have I ever to them. I didn't realise there was such little tolerance for Christians. I don't consider my faith to have any negative impact on anyone, if anything I feel it makes me a better person. But, oh well, can't please everyone!

This thread has definitely opened my eyes!

erichamster

daska wrote: »

Have you changed your mind? Earlier you said "I don't think you can decide to believe in something you don't."

Ok in the line you quoted first I meant you are welcome to believe in whatever you choose in your own head unless it affects other people. This also does not preclude my right to criticise your beliefs, just as I might criticise your political views.

I still don't think you actually can choose to believe in something that you don't, this was mainly borne out by my feelings that I don't think I could just decide tomorrow to believe in god because it would go against many other things that I hold in much higher regard based on evidence, which I wouldn't be able to forget unless I suffered some great brain injury.

However, I'd be interested to hear other people's views on this point about whether we can chose our beliefs.

inkie

Blimey what a can of worms 'Mary and Joseph' of Key stage 1 have opened. :-(

fawd1

dirtysexymonkey wrote: »

your confusing faith and religion. the two are quite separate but only one preys on the other.

I agree, but I'm really not confusing one and the other. I think religion can be dangerous, but faith is wonderful and as the two are intertwined for most people, I feel no need to decry their religion to make a point.

starrystarry

fawd1 wrote: »

When did I ever say that? And I don't care about religions, in all their detail and nuances. I have an issue with people decrying faith. The simple belief that people have in something better. I can see no justification in trying to remove their faith nor change it, whatever it may be.

I'm not trying to remove it or change it, I don't care if people believe in religion.

I didn't mean to imply you'd said something factually incorrect (apologies if it read like that), it was Torry Quine that was spouting nonsense.

dirtysexymonkey

fawd1 wrote: »

I agree, but I'm really not confusing one and the other. I think religion can be dangerous, but faith is wonderful and as the two are intertwined for most people, I feel no need to decry their religion to make a point.

its not to make a point - you fundamentally misunderstand that.

why is this mix of faith and religion good if it brings some comfort, but not bad when it brings misery to so many others?

is it because they are not worthy?