Atheist and the nativity

fawd1

erichamster wrote: »

The problem with the moderate religionists is that they pave the way for the fundamental ones who are a truly evil force in the world. By saying you can't question their mild religious beliefs, you are also saying you cannot question the far stronger, more heinous fundamental ones that actually follow the religious books and use their message to kill people and cause great suffering in the world.

Actually again, you can. You just have to ACTUALLY READ the religious textbooks. Nowhere in Christianity (new testament, relates to Jesus) does it condone killing, or harming, or rejecting. The problem with fundamentalist religious fanatics, is that they listen to part one of the bible (The Old Testament) but forget the part that discusses Jesus' teachings(the fundamentals of Christianity)

Torry_Quine

onlyroz wrote: »

If nobody ever makes an effort to convert anybody else then how will a religion gain followers? Perhaps you should read up on the Christian Missionaries, and their various attempts to spread Christianity through places like Africa.

If somebody holds a particular viewpoint (whether it's Christianity, Atheism, or simply whether they think school dinners should be healthier) then surely it is their right to try and bring others round to their view? I'm not talking about killing or bribing people with different views to you, but simple persuasion through reasoned argument. What's the problem with that?

This is something I can agree with. It's a shame some of the posts on here don't seem to reflect that.

dirtysexymonkey

jimimi wrote: »

What do atheists gain by trying to convince believers that there is no God? I can see why believers would gain from making Atheists believe, they would increase their religions following.

they shrink the influence that religion has over their lives.

onlyroz

jimimi wrote: »

What do atheists gain by trying to convince believers that there is no God?

These would be the same reasons that a religious person would give - because I believe atheism is a better way of life and I would like more people to experience these benefits. For example:
- I live my life knowing that I am responsible for my actions
- Knowing my life is finite (i.e. there is no afterlife) I have a greater motivation to live life to the full and leave a positive legacy
- I am free to develop my own moral code, and do things because they are good, rather than because I am afraid of what will happen in the afterlife

erichamster

fawd1 wrote: »

Your comment is most certainly obscene,and dense actually. Your anti religious belief is as strong as any religious beliefs people have. What good does your belief do? If someone is suffering and wants hope and has faith in something do you just say, no chance, your life is carp and your beliefs are stupid?

Some people, most actually, are just looking for a way to bring some hope into their lives when things are hard, and appreciating that hope in the good times. What harm is their in that? (and don't get into Jihad crusades, religious wars etc, I'm talking about normal people here).

If all you believe in is taking away peoples faith then frankly, your not a shining example of a human yourself.

Well my lack of religious beliefs is based on truth, which is surely one of the most valuable concepts we have. If someone I knew was suffering I would try to help them in real terms rather than offer them platitudes about being rewarded in an imaginary place after death. In fact as an atheist I am hugely happy and fulfilled in my life, which is good after all I have no heaven to cheer me up later, I must enjoy my life now and I would encourage others to do the same and discover the beautiful, elegant truths about the world instead of wasting their time with religion.

Your second point I addressed before when I said that moderate believers that cannot be questioned pave the way for fundamentals who cause real suffering. Also please understand fundamentally religious people who carry out Jihad and religious wars(your examples) are normal people, they just happen to really, actually believe the stuff written in the bible and the quran etc.

Your third point I don't really understand, we're talking about religion here, my views on the subject have no bearing on my moral values. Atheism is not a religion, atheists do not necessarily have anything in common apart from their lack of belief in a deity.

dirtysexymonkey

fawd1 wrote: »

No proof, except for writings from the period ( Tacitus, roman historian described in great detail the effect of Christus, and his followers a mere 115 years AD- that's like you discussing your grandfather. He wrote in the “Annals” (about 115 AD):
“A class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate”.

Suetonius, another Roman historian, commented on the reign of Claudius (41-54 AD): “Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he (Claudius) expelled them from the city”. “Chrestus” is another spelling of “Christ”.


I'm not offended by any particular reference to Christianity, I'm hugely offended by the fact that anyone and I do mean anyone at all can call any religion based on faith a mythology. Who exactly do you think you are to tell people that what they believe in is rubbish? The only way you could know for sure whether or not any of it is true is if you were a deity yourself. So tell us, are you a god, or just condescending?

the same tacitus who wrote about boudicca's revolt, so clearly? except that hed never been to britain and gained most of his stories (which is what they are) from his son in law, a roman soldier. now what would a roman soldier be doing next to boudicca during her pre-battle speech?

you say writings from the period and claim its like you discussing your grandfather, except its really not. its more like you discussing your great-great-great-great grandfathers third cousin from australia. you ignore that humans live much longer now than they did then.

looby75

and they say that religious people are judgemental

fawd1

erichamster wrote: »

Well my lack of religious beliefs is based on truth, which is surely one of the most valuable concepts we have. If someone I knew was suffering I would try to help them in real terms rather than offer them platitudes about being rewarded in an imaginary place after death. In fact as an atheist I am hugely happy and fulfilled in my life, which is good after all I have no heaven to cheer me up later, I must enjoy my life now and I would encourage others to do the same and discover the beautiful, elegant truths about the world instead of wasting their time with religion.

Your second point I addressed before when I said that moderate believers that cannot be questioned pave the way for fundamentals who cause real suffering. Also please understand fundamentally religious people who carry out Jihad and religious wars(your examples) are normal people, they just happen to really, actually believe the stuff written in the bible and the quran etc.

Your third point I don't really understand, we're talking about religion here, my views on the subject have no bearing on my moral values. Atheism is not a religion, atheists do not necessarily have anything in common apart from their lack of belief in a deity.

Are you sure? you argue there is no proof for religion, there is also no proof against it. It's like love, you can't prove it exists, some people claim they don't believe in it, but plenty live their lives enriched by believing in it.
I answered your second point earlier, and on you third point, I disagree. Your desire to take away a source of happiness and hope to others, however well intentioned your reasons might be, aren't the sign of a hugely kind person. Do you tell children that Santa doesn't exist, because you know him not to be real? I bet they love you for it.

dirtysexymonkey

looby75 wrote: »

and they say that religious people are judgemental

when religious people claim that mankind has been around since the dawn of time - what do you expect?

that is one of the most monumentally stupid things ever to be uttered.

dirtysexymonkey

fawd1 wrote: »

Are you sure? you argue there is no proof for religion, there is also no proof against it. It's like love, you can't prove it exists, some people claim they don't believe in it, but plenty live their lives enriched by believing in it.
I answered your second point earlier, and on you third point, I disagree. Your desire to take away a source of happiness and hope to others, however well intentioned your reasons might be, aren't the sign of a hugely kind person. Do you tell children that Santa doesn't exist, because you know him not to be real? I bet they love you for it.

is Santa used as an excuse to discriminate, mutilate and murder people?