Atheist and the nativity

fawd1

onlyroz wrote: »

In one sentence you talk about "disasters" and in the next sentence you talk about "earthquakes, tsunamis etc" - so you can't blame us for thinking that you said earthquakes could be prevented. I know you won't answer, but I really would like to know why God would allow a good person to die in an earthquake. Are they somehow at fault because they chose to live in the wrong place?

Either we all live at the whims of chance, or we live according to the will of God. So if I die tomorrow in an earthquake, was I just unlucky, or was I being punished by God?

technically if you're a believer then death is in fact a gift as you get to be by his side.

jimimi

My daughter said the same sort of things as yours OP (she's 6 next week). Like others have suggested, I told her that I personally don't believe in God etc, but some people do. For a non-faith school, my kids school is pretty "up" on the whole Christianity thing, they take the children to church and stuff. They do learn about other faiths, but Christianity is the main one. Mind you, the school is a bit old fashioned I always think, but in a nice way. I think sometimes it is helpful for children to believe in God etc, for instance my grandmother recently died and both children think she is in heaven, which is easier for them to accept than her just being gone. I will leave it up to them to believe what they choose, but I tell them that I don't believe.

erichamster

fawd1 wrote: »

No proof, except for writings from the period ( Tacitus, roman historian described in great detail the effect of Christus, and his followers a mere 115 years AD- that's like you discussing your grandfather. He wrote in the “Annals” (about 115 AD):
“A class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate”.

Suetonius, another Roman historian, commented on the reign of Claudius (41-54 AD): “Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he (Claudius) expelled them from the city”. “Chrestus” is another spelling of “Christ”.


I'm not offended by any particular reference to Christianity, I'm hugely offended by the fact that anyone and I do mean anyone at all can call any religion based on faith a mythology. Who exactly do you think you are to tell people that what they believe in is rubbish? The only way you could know for sure whether or not any of it is true is if you were a deity yourself. So tell us, are you a god, or just condescending?

What is rubbish based on no evidence if not mythology?
What makes the christian god (or muslim god or hindu gods, etc) more special than any of the roman, norse or greek gods?
What makes christians (or any other religious group) more special or right than holocaust deniers? They both believe what they do counter to all the evidence but one group is (rightly) ridiculed and hated and the other holds great power and status within society.

The problem with the moderate religionists is that they pave the way for the fundamental ones who are a truly evil force in the world. By saying you can't question their mild religious beliefs, you are also saying you cannot question the far stronger, more heinous fundamental ones that actually follow the religious books and use their message to kill people and cause great suffering in the world.

jimimi

And another thing, I don't understand why people have to question other's beliefs, if they believe in God/Allah/whoever else, surely that's a personal thing to them, they don't deserve insults and snide remarks making to them. They also don't need to be told, how can there be a God if this happens/that happens. If they believe, it's a personal choice, they shouldn't be made to feel bad about it.

fawd1

erichamster wrote: »

Unfortunately religious beliefs are stupid and obscene and they affect everyone of us adversely... and only a handful vaguely positively.

Your comment is most certainly obscene,and dense actually. Your anti religious belief is as strong as any religious beliefs people have. What good does your belief do? If someone is suffering and wants hope and has faith in something do you just say, no chance, your life is carp and your beliefs are stupid?

Some people, most actually, are just looking for a way to bring some hope into their lives when things are hard, and appreciating that hope in the good times. What harm is their in that? (and don't get into Jihad crusades, religious wars etc, I'm talking about normal people here).

If all you believe in is taking away peoples faith then frankly, your not a shining example of a human yourself.

Torry_Quine

[QUOTE=onlyroz;49412181

Either we all live at the whims of chance, or we live according to the will of God. So if I die tomorrow in an earthquake, was I just unlucky, or was I being punished by God?[/QUOTE]

We should all live by the will of God but obviously atheists don't. If you were to die tomorrow and I sincerely hope you don't then I doubt very much you would be being punished by God. I would say it would be chance as obviously I don't believe in luck bad or otherwise.

onlyroz

jimimi wrote: »

And another thing, I don't understand why people have to question other's beliefs, if they believe in God/Allah/whoever else, surely that's a personal thing to them, they don't deserve insults and snide remarks making to them. They also don't need to be told, how can there be a God if this happens/that happens. If they believe, it's a personal choice, they shouldn't be made to feel bad about it.

If nobody ever makes an effort to convert anybody else then how will a religion gain followers? Perhaps you should read up on the Christian Missionaries, and their various attempts to spread Christianity through places like Africa.

If somebody holds a particular viewpoint (whether it's Christianity, Atheism, or simply whether they think school dinners should be healthier) then surely it is their right to try and bring others round to their view? I'm not talking about killing or bribing people with different views to you, but simple persuasion through reasoned argument. What's the problem with that?

fawd1

erichamster wrote: »

What is rubbish based on no evidence if not mythology?
What makes the christian god (or muslim god or hindu gods, etc) more special than any of the roman, norse or greek gods?

Actually you'll find, if you knew more about religion, that most single deity religions (which account for the majority of religions in the world today) all believe in the one God. The argument is in regards to the correct path to him i.e. Jesus, Allah, etc. There is no such thing as a Christian God and a Jewish God etc etc. But no doubt you knew that already.;)

prosaver

the new religion .. capitalism??

jimimi

onlyroz wrote: »

If nobody ever makes an effort to convert anybody else then how will a religion gain followers? Perhaps you should read up on the Christian Missionaries, and their various attempts to spread Christianity through places like Africa.

If somebody holds a particular viewpoint (whether it's Christianity, Atheism, or simply whether they think school dinners should be healthier) then surely it is their right to try and bring others round to their view? I'm not talking about killing or bribing people with different views to you, but simple persuasion through reasoned argument. What's the problem with that?

What do atheists gain by trying to convince believers that there is no God? I can see why believers would gain from making Atheists believe, they would increase their religions following.