Son being realeased from prison

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Someone who does not want to stop will, even if kept in a locked room, cuddled, fussed, indulged, made to feel lovely, and have a gradually reduced dose of their most frequently used drug (few addicts have that much brand loyalty) as soon as they are released, go and get themselves a ten pound bag. If they have even an ounce of self preservation, they will chase it rather than inject it, or they will end up on a slab by the end of the week.


It's all very well saying that people do it in prison because they are bored, but if deprivation of the freedom to use any old dealer, shoot up with relatively clean, fresh needles from the chemist, and generally do as they please (as addicts invariably do) is not enough of a wake up for them to think 'actually, I've had enough of this', then saying they need little classes to take their minds off using is a little naive.



Someone who only uses coke is likely to be able to function for longer - if you call snorting, sniffing, getting paranoid or being a burbling nincompoop functioning - than an illegal opiate user. Partly because a lot of the people are better paid in the first place, and it is seen as a party thing, rather than something that 'addicts do' - well, you get more sense out of a compost bin. And the bin is less irritating.

Although I would say that the posh boy and girl who thinks they are being all radical and glam doing lines at parties isn't really any different than the person in rags who is giving serious consideration to getting some crack - and a surprising number of the former end up on the latter.


If they were to have legal, safe supplies of prescription opiates through the GP, as happened until the early 1970s when the US decided that, as it was so successful with alcohol, Prohibition was the only way for them and their allies to go, opiate addicts would be far more likely to function for many, productive years. As many did. You only have to look at the numbers of people who are, quite legally, on opiate based medications for years for medical conditions - they have tolerance, they have addiction, as the symptoms they would have on cessation would be just the same - they don't get ill from the opiates. They hold down jobs, they function.


Although if you get someone who speedballs, they're less productive than the compost in the bin.



I think that removing the criminal aspect of using drugs - and making them, the real things, available again on prescription - would do more to reduce criminality, physical harm and morbidity/mortality than any number of punishments.

The Maudesley has found that addicts actually given proper drugs and not Methadone are more likely to succeed coming off them and staying off them than with any other treatment protocol.


When a substance is not available on prescription, it has to be obtained illegally. Once someone is caught in possession, they get a criminal record. So become unemployable, therefore losing the means by which they would have paid for the drug. So they then - because it is an addiction of behaviours as well as chemicals - have no choice but to commit crime/prostitution to obtain money to pay for the drug. They will find alternative things to deal with the most unpleasant side effects of withdrawal - codeine/solphadine for the stomach cramps and diarrhoea, for example, or tranquilisers, very possibly getting a second addiction on the go as well, which then has its own withdrawal effects (insomnia, for example). Their judgement is skewed by so many interactions and discontinuation effects. Socially acceptable alcohol can become a part of the picture. And we all know how thick and unpredictable a drunk can be. So they commit further crimes to pay for the drugs and booze, but are more likely to be caught as their judgements are impaired.

Even less chance of a job. A DTTO might help, but they are already labelled as an addict, as a criminal. so they aren't going to be accepted by employers or other people, even if they've been off everything for months. So, they're poor, they have limited social support as everyone around them has had to step back, so they are lonely/angry/sad.

Some people like the religious/spiritual side of AA/NA or any other 12 step programme, which is what tends to be offered through the NHS/Social Services/Drug and Alcohol projects. But others, who have no religious beliefs, don't, and obtain no comfort or support from the concept of anything supernatural taking all their problems away 'if they humbly ask'. So, they are down as being a treatment failure. Which actually makes them less likely to be offered treatment again.


And, not to forget, that ALL THE TIME, they are reminded by the papers, the TV, the government, that they are scum. They don't deserve even the same treatment as other humans, but should be forcibly starved and homeless, and no care paid to the fact that, if the small amount of benefit they do receive is cut off, they are quite likely to die within a week - something that isn't allowed for by the pontificating prats with their media soundbites about 'junkies get free houses and cars and milwons of pounds of innocent middle class voters' money', as the costs of thousands of addicts thrown into withdrawal would cost millions and cause the NHS to seize to a halt.

So, they spend everyday knowing that everyone wishes them dead. Why be nice if the world wants you to die in pain or at least suffer all the time?


Using takes away the pain. Whether it is pain from withdrawal, rejection, fear, loneliness, self hatred, whatever - it takes it away. It stops life hurting for just a few sweet minutes. And then life comes back and it's all bad again. Being able to deal with pain is not something everybody learns at school or home, sometimes they are the cause of the pain. Some people choose strategies for dealing with that pain that are seemingly effective in the short term (plenty of non addicts go and have a few drinks when they are stressed, angry or upset), but over a longer period, become far more destructive than originally envisaged.

A huge number of substance abusers have health issues that predated the addiction. So the current treatments and attitudes aren't working to help those, either (someone with a history of addiction, even if not using for years, will often be refused all antidepressants (and painkillers for injuries), as the doctor feels they will just sell them/OD with alcohol - and can't get referrals to mental health services because the official line is that an addict not using is cured, and other specialities don't 'do' people with addiction issues as part of an underlying illness. Which leaves them in the position of needing something to deal with the underlying illness that is being ignored, whether the problem is hallucinations, depression, anxiety, PTSD, arthritis or something like Hughes Syndrome, Lupus or Rheumatoid Arthritis, all of which can affect the mood as well as the body, but aren't generally recognised as such/are usually misdiagnosed.


Addicts can be incredibly annoying, self centred, nasty, boring and scary. They can also be well educated, intelligent, gentle, funny and articulate. If they want to stop, then they need proper help and not punishment.

But the way they are treated and seen in society (and I fully acknowledge, I'm not the most sympathetic person in the world) and the nature of the illness itself, means that if someone doesn't want to stop, they will not stop.


And there is nothing anyone else can do about it.

euripidesralph

Hiya

I really felt the need to respond, I run a community drugs project and in two weeks will start my new job running a rehab facility. Ive spent years previously working in prisons as a drugs worker. I say this to hopefully show I am talking from a position of some knowledge (not all - everyone in this business learns something new on a daily basis)

OP im really sorry your friend is going through this, and I can understand your bitterness, but it does perhaps sound like her son is manipulating her. Ive heard stories like the direct debit one for years, and much worse, nine times out of ten the person themselves is finding a unique way to access drugs but is spinning a poor me line. I have previously posted that people using substances are not to be villified but it is important to understand that they can be very manipulative when they need to be, as we all can when we feel the chips are down and we are desperate.

Having worked in prisons, honestly yes we knew it was there - and it was kept out as much as possible but it is an impossibility to stem a wave like that. I find it incredibly frustrating , I have clients who go in with a heavy cannabis addiction then in prison use heroin as it comes out of the system more quickly and end up with a habit. Its frustrating, but i would want to point out it can be very soul destroying as a professional to be accused of letting it happen, services are desperately trying to stop it and are doing all in their power.

I just wanted to mention that 18 months on Methadone is not that long in some situations - of course its not ideal, but detoxing people off it too quickly will cause relapse and the client will be back to square one. Its entirely possible his treatment could be 3-6 months titration (which is adjusting levels to find optimum safe dosage) 6 months psychological support (of which there are many in prisons - all accredited and with high success rates) without which it is highly unlikely a client would stay clean long term, and 6 months maintenance and then you would never detox off on release from prison as that is a risk period for relapse or overdose. I dont say this to be unpleasant, I am hoping it may put your mind at rest.

After 13 years in drug treatment services, I do understand how frustrating it can be, but there are hundreds of highly trained staff out there to support - although we are being cut down by funding issues one by one, we are good at what we do but there are not enough of us

And in response to some of the other posts,
I am really sorry to rant in this bit, but firstly the word junkie is frankly one of the most offensive terms I can here - its very easy for people to use that term to villify what they see as a monster but my clients are often some of the strongest and capable people I have ever met, of course there are unpleasant clients but there are unpleasant people in all parts of society. That word is not ok to use in any situation attacking or describing anyone, nor frankly is coke head - try using people. There is a story behind every client and it might be worth looking at that rather than judging.

And Opiate withdrawal can be fatal, it is not an option to go cold turkey unless you know that you are very very lucky, and even if it wasnt fatal I have concerns about any suggestion that people should be made to suffer intense pain and hallucinations - for being addicted to something.

Its easy to pick on someone who misuse substances but I wonder how many people that do that - look at how often they drink, or smoke or frankly eat cake or drink coffee - check you dont have an addiction because it is rare that people do not have something. And I wonder if it would shock to know that exactly the same psychological behaviour is present in someone on a diet as someone trying to give up heroin?

cavework

euripidesralph Thank you for your post above.
Can I once again point out that I am NOT attacking the Prison Officers or the people working directly with the inmates.
I can understand the frustration they feel and also the risk they are facing having to deal with this situation.
Some people have accused me of not knowing what I am talking about .. DD's set up?
The DD is set up on the outside .. not paid to the prison . The dealer gets the money and the drugs are smuggled in. In America it is called 'street on street'
Maybe this is untrue but this is what I was told and for the record .. no , my friend did not do this and yes maybe the son was blagging it .
As for the reference to Chavs , just for the record , a member of my close family works in a NHS Drugs and Alcohol rehab centre.
You would be suprised at how many come from middle to upper class backgrounds. Many of these people have convictions because of their addiction. Many also return .. some have been found dead a few weeks after they leave, but some do turn their life around.
My friend has been a good Mum , her son was not living at home when he was arrested .. she did what some have suggested and refused to have him back.
While he has been in prison she hasn't visited , only written ,because she wanted him to understand the damage his addiction has had on the rest of his family.
I understand why some people have become angry with me for posting this thread and I apologise if anyone feels I am making a personal attack on a member of their family who may work in the Prison Service, this was never my intention.
Thanks to everyone who has sugested helplines , I have passed these on to her.

jamespir

cavework wrote: »

euripidesralph Thank you for your post above.
Can I once again point out that I am NOT attacking the Prison Officers or the people working directly with the inmates.
I can understand the frustration they feel and also the risk they are facing having to deal with this situation.
Some people have accused me of not knowing what I am talking about .. DD's set up?
The DD is set up on the outside .. not paid to the prison . The dealer gets the money and the drugs are smuggled in. In America it is called 'street on street'
Maybe this is untrue but this is what I was told and for the record .. no , my friend did not do this and yes maybe the son was blagging it .
As for the reference to Chavs , just for the record , a member of my close family works in a NHS Drugs and Alcohol rehab centre.
You would be suprised at how many come from middle to upper class backgrounds. Many of these people have convictions because of their addiction. Many also return .. some have been found dead a few weeks after they leave, but some do turn their life around.
My friend has been a good Mum , her son was not living at home when he was arrested .. she did what some have suggested and refused to have him back.
While he has been in prison she hasn't visited , only written ,because she wanted him to understand the damage his addiction has had on the rest of his family.
I understand why some people have become angry with me for posting this thread and I apologise if anyone feels I am making a personal attack on a member of their family who may work in the Prison Service, this was never my intention.
Thanks to everyone who has sugested helplines , I have passed these on to her.

sorry how does a drug dealer set up a dd without alerting the bank with what he is doing you have to be a registered company to do that

cavework

jamespir wrote: »

sorry how does a drug dealer set up a dd without alerting the bank with what he is doing you have to be a registered company to do that

I'm not a registered company and I have DD's (direct debits) set up as do most people with a current account with their bank.
My son pays his housekeeping to me via DD
Sorry .. but not sure what you are on about ?

cavework

Anyone can set up a direct debit payment to anyone from and to a personal Bank account. You do not have to be registered as a company.

Dontknowanymore

cavework wrote: »

I'm not a registered company and I have DD's (direct debits) set up as do most people with a current account with their bank.
My son pays his housekeeping to me via DD
Sorry .. but not sure what you are on about ?

That is not a direct debit, more a standing order or a direct payment.

cavework

OFGS
:rotfl:
banking - standing orders and direct debits

standing order or direct debit?

Many of the complaints we get about regular payments wrongly describe a standing order as a ‘direct debit’, or a direct debit as a "standing order". It’s maybe not too surprising that customers get the terms muddled up, because standing orders and direct debits do broadly the same thing, even though they work very differently. It doesn’t help, though, when bankers themselves sometimes describe them wrongly. Here's a brief explanation:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]standing orders are customers’ instructions to their bank to pay a set amount, to a named beneficiary, at regular intervals (say on the 1st of the month) – either for a specific period of time or until cancelled. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]direct debits are:[/SIZE][/FONT]

• customers’ authority for beneficiaries to claim payments (variable in amount and frequency) from the customers’ accounts; and
• customers’ instructions to their bank to allow the taking of those payments.

OK maybe not a DD .. perhaps a standing order .. whatever.
It happens and some peoples attitude by slagging off the parents.. getting a cheap thrill by smugly announcing that it must be the parents fault and it would never happen to them?
They have their opinion and I have mine ..I really hope they never find themselves in the position my friend now finds herself in.
Thanks for replying tho

jamespir

cavework wrote: »

Anyone can set up a direct debit payment to anyone from and to a personal Bank account. You do not have to be registered as a company.

thats not a dd its a standing order

cavework

OK thanks for correcting me
a standing order .. money gets paid into a bank account .. drugs are then supplied .