it would all be great but............

Blue_Elephant

Louise03 wrote: »

I think the op is perfectly entitled to air her feelings about wanting her grandson to have the traditional upbringing the rest of her family enjoy. So many people here have been hostile and used it as a venue to get on their soap boxes. It is possible to feel remorse about your family situation and reflect on how you would actually prefer it to be, this does not make her a terrible grandmother.

No that doesn't make her a terrible grandmother - wanting the ideal is true of most, if not all people.

However, some of the things she states about the child's mother are tantamount to slander, and yet it wasn't her son's responsibility that he got a girl pregnant out of wedlock. Surely if he shared the OP's values he wouldn't have had sex before marriage? After all, it's the only guaranteed way of not getting someone pregnant. It wasn't an immaculate conception after all.

The OP uses her knowledge of the ex gf's backround to make some incredible judgements about her. According to the OP, folk from a singla parent backgornd "don't see the need for a two parent family" - Surely they are the people that could see the advantages more than most? Having another boyfriend after her son (and sleeping with him) makes her a !!!!!!. According to this logic, most folk I know are sluts. (Men and women!)

3v3

Blue_Elephant wrote: »

..... Having another boyfriend after her son (and sleeping with him) makes her a !!!!!!. According to this logic, most folk I know are sluts. (Men and women!)

Only if most of the folk you know (men and women) sleep with another partner while the father of their child is still in the house? That's an interesting logic; however, not one I can comment on as the person doing the deed while the other parent of their child is in the house *isn't* the one posting!

This thread was about the dilema of the OP - not the g/f. The OP is having difficultly in reconciling their life-long beliefs with the scenario she is faced with. Yes, she has made judgements on the mother of her grandchild *according to the standards, values and morals she was brought up with*, but, see beyond the (very natural) instincts of a mother who is defending her son (and grandson's) position - overlook the natural bias in favour of her son's behaviour (which mother's have a natural tendancy to do!) vs the g/f's behaviour - and we have a person who has opened her heart and, predominantly, been called all sorts simply because she admits she is finding it hard to reconcile her traditional upbringing with contemporary attitudes?

Of course, in her day, the behaviour of the g/f could (and would!) have been deemed "sluttish". The fact that it is no longer viewed that way isn't the fault of the OP (and clearly not something she subscribed to!) and yes, maybe that is a dated attitude from some people's perspective - but, the fact remains, she is not alone in struggling to reconcile the indoctrine's of her generation/upbringing/culture with contemporary views?

Who knows what the world will be like in 30yrs time for *us* or how we may (or may not?) struggle to reconcile *our* views with the views of tomorrow? We don't know how life will evolve or the issues we will face in 30yrs time - for all we know we might be living under a Chinese communist regime by then, being forced to speak Mandarin and kow-towing to an alien (to us) lifestyle simply because Globalisation dictates it that way - which may conflict with what we have considered the "norm".

The one thing this thread has highlighted is this: a woman, of mature years, has opened her heart by declaring how alien modernity is to her upbringing and way of life, and she struggles to reconcile the two. In her day, she would never have been opened up to the outright abuse some posters believe it is their right to post! Yes, she may well have expected some "constructive" criticism, we all do when we post; but some comments have been downright rude, objectionable and incredibly judgemental while (hypocritacally!) spouting "free choice" paradigm!!!!!?

No wonder the OP struggles with contemporary issues when a plea for help in understanding a generational issues makes her out to be the "bad guy" and subjected to such harsh, judgemental and downright rude, self opinionated insults!

If she has any sense at all, she will not even bother to read this thread, let alone "thank" people. How much more upsetting must it have been to hear some of the harsh, cruel and insulting comments from posters when she is already struggling to make sense of her situation? Yes, let's all beat someone when they are at their lowest ebb: so big, so brave

*She* made a judgement on a person she has known for several years; the dissenters of this thread have made a judgement on a woman appealing for insight/comprehension/understanding based on ONE solitary post, where she exposed her vulnerabilities: like vultures, some people have gone for the heart!

I hope she never returns to this thread to read the full extent of the hostility aimed at her; she has already pointed out her vulnerability ... those negative posts could have a profound affect on her!

ceridwen

3v3 wrote: »

Only if most of the folk you know (men and women) sleep with another partner while the father of their child is still in the house? That's an interesting logic; however, not one I can comment on as the person doing the deed while the other parent of their child is in the house *isn't* the one posting!

This thread was about the dilema of the OP - not the g/f. The OP is having difficultly in reconciling their life-long beliefs with the scenario she is faced with. Yes, she has made judgements on the mother of her grandchild *according to the standards, values and morals she was brought up with*, but, see beyond the (very natural) instincts of a mother who is defending her son (and grandson's) position - overlook the natural bias in favour of her son's behaviour (which mother's have a natural tendancy to do!) vs the g/f's behaviour - and we have a person who has opened her heart and, predominantly, been called all sorts simply because she admits she is finding it hard to reconcile her traditional upbringing with contemporary attitudes?

Of course, in her day, the behaviour of the g/f could (and would!) have been deemed "sluttish". The fact that it is no longer viewed that way isn't the fault of the OP (and clearly not something she subscribed to!) and yes, maybe that is a dated attitude from some people's perspective - but, the fact remains, she is not alone in struggling to reconcile the indoctrine's of her generation/upbringing/culture with contemporary views?

Who knows what the world will be like in 30yrs time for *us* or how we may (or may not?) struggle to reconcile *our* views with the views of tomorrow? We don't know how life will evolve or the issues we will face in 30yrs time - for all we know we might be living under a Chinese communist regime by then, being forced to speak Mandarin and kow-towing to an alien (to us) lifestyle simply because Globalisation dictates it that way - which may conflict with what we have considered the "norm".

The one thing this thread has highlighted is this: a woman, of mature years, has opened her heart by declaring how alien modernity is to her upbringing and way of life, and she struggles to reconcile the two. In her day, she would never have been opened up to the outright abuse some posters believe it is their right to post! Yes, she may well have expected some "constructive" criticism, we all do when we post; but some comments have been downright rude, objectionable and incredibly judgemental while (hypocritacally!) spouting "free choice" paradigm!!!!!?

No wonder the OP struggles with contemporary issues when a plea for help in understanding a generational issues makes her out to be the "bad guy" and subjected to such harsh, judgemental and downright rude, self opinionated insults!

If she has any sense at all, she will not even bother to read this thread, let alone "thank" people. How much more upsetting must it have been to hear some of the harsh, cruel and insulting comments from posters when she is already struggling to make sense of her situation? Yes, let's all beat someone when they are at their lowest ebb: so big, so brave

*She* made a judgement on a person she has known for several years; the dissenters of this thread have made a judgement on a woman appealing for insight/comprehension/understanding based on ONE solitary post, where she exposed her vulnerabilities: like vultures, some people have gone for the heart!

I hope she never returns to this thread to read the full extent of the hostility aimed at her; she has already pointed out her vulnerability ... those negative posts could have a profound affect on her!

Very well put:T

I must admit to being astonished (as I frequently am on this Board) by how wildly different attitudes are to my own/Old Tractors' own generation. We are NOT "wrong" - we are a different generation. Just as we make an attempt to figure out why people often act so differently to how our own generation would have - then I think the least we can expect in fairness back is for people to understand how many of our generation think/feel - rather than slinging insults and calling us "wrong" forgawdsake.

Re the "this woman slept with another man whilst still living with her boyfriend" - I know (and I'm sure Old Tractor knows) that by the standards of some of this generation that its deemed that people have separated/relationship over whilst they are still living under the same roof. Actually - though - even by present day thinking - I do not recall any comment stating that this couple regarded themselves as "separated". That being the case - ie they didnt proclaim themselves as "separated" and were still living under the same roof - then they were still a couple by ANYONES definition - ie she was not free to sleep with someone else.

Anyway....I thank this poster for concern for Old Tractor. Old Tractor has been told just how nasty some of the posts on this thread have been (despite her genuine plea for help in dealing with this situation) and is unlikely to be revisiting this thread anyway because of those nasty posts.

I've stepped in and "scooped her up" out of the vitriol by warning her in a PM of the nature of some of the posts here. I do NOT like when a "feeding frenzy" starts up hunting for an innocent posters' scalp.

clearingout

My mum at 75 and Catholic with some very 'old fashioned' views never once suggested to me I should stay in a marriage with a man who had betrayed me. And I feel quite sure that if my marriage had broken down for other reasons, she would never have suggested to me that I was a '!!!!!!' because I wanted out. I'm afraid it is the choice of words that the OP made which have resulted in harsh responses more than anything else. That, and the suggestion (as I read it anyway) that somehow anyone who isn't living in the traditional family set up with their children, is somehow beneath those that do.

Many of us have divorce forced upon us as a result of adultery, physical abuse and worse. I was prepared to try and save our marriage but my ex husband wasn't. So there you go. That I now move on with my life, go on the occasional date and want to eventually settle into a new family set-up with my children doesn't make me a !!!!!!, does it? Would you have preferred my children's lives and my life were ruined as a result of persisting in living with someone who had no respect for me and all the stress that would have brought on the marital home?

zcrat41

I just want to add that its not just the older generation that still believe in these "old fashioned" values.

Old Tractor has some sympathy and understanding from some youngsters too.

euronorris

I didn't actually think I had been particularly harsh, or criticised the OP as such. I was simply asking questions so that I could understand the situation at hand better, and so could she, whilst also challenging how she views things.

I'm sorry if it has come across as overly harsh, but sometimes we need someone else to ask questions that we have otherwise not thought about, or avoided, in order to help us feel at peace/more comfortable with something.

Birdy12

The OP has every right to voice her opinion on marriage, living together, children born out of wedlock etc.

What isn't so palatable to a lot of people is that she has tried to portray her son as an innocent while, at the same time, comparing the ex-girlfriend to, well, something along the lines of a mother/girlfriend from hell.

None of us really knows the full story.

What strikes me with this thread (and a lot of others) is that the OP posts once...never to be heard from again. I'd like to think If I felt that strongly about something, then I would come back to defend it even if not everybody saw it my way.

Birdy

Lotus-eater

Birdy12 wrote: »

What strikes me with this thread (and a lot of others) is that the OP posts once...never to be heard from again. I'd like to think If I felt that strongly about something, then I would come back to defend it even if not everybody saw it my way.

I can understand it fully, she's not the type of person to get involved in a thread where there are some quite nasty posts about her.

Not everyone wants a pointless internet argument.

Birdy12

Lotus-eater wrote: »

I can understand it fully, she's not the type of person to get involved in a thread where there are some quite nasty posts about her.

Not everyone wants a pointless internet argument.

I agree that some of posts have been, well, less than sympathetic!

However, the OP must realise that she can't post a thread of this subject and assume everybody will be in agreement with her. Surely she understood there would be a mixture of reactions?

To not respond, to me, smacks of wasting peoples time (and that's not the first time I've said this on a thread within the Moneysaving in Marriages, Relationships and Families section).

If you post a thread you've got to be prepared for a variety of responses. A little courtesy wouldn't go amiss...

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Oh dear.

Such a pity a child is being disadvantaged because some woman didn't have the sense to teach her son that if he can't keep it in his trousers, put something latex over it before ejaculation.

If someone refused to leave a woman's home (and I am taking the point of view that this was a sole council tenancy only offered to the mother) when the relationship was over, that makes him a) liable for removal by the police b) an unwanted lodger. She therefore has every right to conduct a new relationship in her own home when the squatter refuses to leave.

The right or not to live somewhere in someone else's home is completely separate to the biological fathering of a child.

If he wanted more rights than that, well, he should have married her, shouldn't he?



Don't be so flaming spiteful about the child's mother, or it will most likely come back and bite you in the future. Especially if your son finally meets someone you do approve of, and you confide in her how much of a complete slag you think his ex is - and the 'best thing that could have ever happened to him' heads for the hills because of your attitude towards the woman.