Divorce / csa / spousal maintenance

Giraffe5021

rachel6188 - thank you (I have sent you a private message).

princessdreamer

The thing with going to court is it is about the childrens rights. Older children have the right to say no to contact as well as yes. Then if things get very bitter they have the right to refuse to go with the NRP. You have to be careful how would THE CHILDREN feel if they knew you were recording calls and keeping notes on their mother. I know my ex is different because he makes his diaries up but my sons think he is polite way to put it a total rat.

Giraffe5021

PrincessDreamer
I am acutely aware of doing anything that my children could see as undermining their mother or being seen as creating conflict....... and whilst I do totally understand and appreciate your comment, I do need to "defend" (not really the term I am looking for but sure you will get the idea of what I mean) myself from just being bullied by the way she is behaving.
As I am sure you will have gathered from my posts I just want a workable, amicable (if possible!!) solution that will work for all of us.

Giraffe5021

URGENT FURTHER ADVICE REQUIRED

Last mediation meeting was on Friday - broadly good progress made (Mesher Charge agreed and the trigger points for sale of the property agreed all of which seem reasonable and I can live with) BUT there is one major issue.
The only point we have to agree on is the level and duration of Spousal Maintenance. Ex has seen her solicitor and he has come up with a fresh proposal that I find surreal.
Back end of 2010 ex's solicitor came up with a total maintenance payment of £2,000 pcm (ie CSA + spousal).
Since that point my income has dropped by 27% hence the CSA payment has reduced. To compensate for this her solicitor has INCREASED the amount of spousal maintenance (SM) to take the total figure back to £2,000.
Naturally CSA is s fixed percentage so thats fine but to increase the SM seems beyond comprehension and total fails the recognise the change in financial circumstances.
To put this into context if we were to run with his suggestion the financial arrangement monthly would be as follows:
Ex:
Income (being wages + benefits): £1450
Maintenance (CSA + SM) : £2,000
Total income: £3,450
Monthly outgoings : £1,460 (this represents all costs including utilities, mortgage, insurances etc but excludes food, spending, petrol, holidays etc)
Available balance to live £1,990
Me:
Income: £4,250
Maintenance: £2,000
Monthly outgoings £1,832 (same basis as set out above for the ex)
Available balance to me: £418
Please note that my monthly outgoings appear disproportionate in relation to ex's as I am remaining to pay life insurances (to benefit her / my children in the event of my death) and taking on the jointly accrued debts as she is unable / incapable of paying her percetage of these off. The trade off is that my Mesher Charge percentage is increased to reflect this which is fine right up to the point where I cant afford to live per month now!!
Bear in mind from this £400 pcm I have to establish (i.e. furnish from scratch and equip a new home being a rented property)
I am total amazed at this proposal and cant believe they can even put this forward as a sensible proposal!!
Plainly I cannot and will not accept this.

Your thoughts and advice would be grately appreciated.
Next mediation meeting is Thursday and mediator wants to work through the monthly outgoings for us both and fully expects to agree this aspect at which point "job done". I wish I shared her optimism!!!

RAS

I would go back with a suggestion that the spousal maintenance is decreased by 27% in line with the drop in your income and is variable, depending I suggest on the previous year's income. So if your income increases in the future she benefits but if it declines, she also take a hit.

Obviously if your income increases, you will need to make provisons throughout the year. Also you need some sort of trigger below which spousal maintence is reduced rapidly, say if you lost you job or were seriously ill.

How much would a decent two-bed rental cost locally pcm?

Giraffe5021

RAS - i have 3 children (2 boys and 1 girl) so would require 3 bed property and having researched on Rightmove I am looking at £750 pcm (and this is the figure I have based my previous figures on).

princessdreamer

So 1 person has £400 left to live on and 4 people have £1,800 knock it down to £1,600 and you would be equal. Just another viewpoint.

Giraffe5021

Thanks for the response princessdreamer but to be honest dont agree with your logic - for example:

1. we both have 1 car to run (your assumption would mean there are 5 cars to run)
2. it does not cost 4 times the amount to feed 1 adult and 3 children as it does to feed 1 adult.

To me the solution is totally unbalanced.

Bubby

Giraffe5021 wrote: »

URGENT FURTHER ADVICE REQUIRED

Last mediation meeting was on Friday - broadly good progress made (Mesher Charge agreed and the trigger points for sale of the property agreed all of which seem reasonable and I can live with) BUT there is one major issue.
The only point we have to agree on is the level and duration of Spousal Maintenance. Ex has seen her solicitor and he has come up with a fresh proposal that I find surreal.
Back end of 2010 ex's solicitor came up with a total maintenance payment of £2,000 pcm (ie CSA + spousal).
Since that point my income has dropped by 27% hence the CSA payment has reduced. To compensate for this her solicitor has INCREASED the amount of spousal maintenance (SM) to take the total figure back to £2,000.
Naturally CSA is s fixed percentage so thats fine but to increase the SM seems beyond comprehension and total fails the recognise the change in financial circumstances.
To put this into context if we were to run with his suggestion the financial arrangement monthly would be as follows:
Ex:
Income (being wages + benefits): £1450
Maintenance (CSA + SM) : £2,000
Total income: £3,450
Monthly outgoings : £1,460 (this represents all costs including utilities, mortgage, insurances etc but excludes food, spending, petrol, holidays etc)
Available balance to live £1,990
Me:
Income: £4,250
Maintenance: £2,000
Monthly outgoings £1,832 (same basis as set out above for the ex)
Available balance to me: £418
Please note that my monthly outgoings appear disproportionate in relation to ex's as I am remaining to pay life insurances (to benefit her / my children in the event of my death) and taking on the jointly accrued debts as she is unable / incapable of paying her percetage of these off. The trade off is that my Mesher Charge percentage is increased to reflect this which is fine right up to the point where I cant afford to live per month now!!
Bear in mind from this £400 pcm I have to establish (i.e. furnish from scratch and equip a new home being a rented property)
I am total amazed at this proposal and cant believe they can even put this forward as a sensible proposal!!
Plainly I cannot and will not accept this.

Your thoughts and advice would be grately appreciated.
Next mediation meeting is Thursday and mediator wants to work through the monthly outgoings for us both and fully expects to agree this aspect at which point "job done". I wish I shared her optimism!!!

The solicitor has put forward a proposal on her behalf knowing full well that you will negotiate this figure down;). Its not a written rule but most judges won't allow more than 40% taken from your salary to support them (child and spousal maintenance). The money you have left will not be feasible as it doesn't incude petrol or food - that is completely unrealistic. Is it possible for you to have a free half an hour with a solicitor near you? I can't see the judge signing this off at all but I would go with a list of outgoings to include petrol and food and a small emergency fund (i.e home insurance excess etc)

Giraffe5021

Bubby - thanks again.
Is it just through your knowledge of assisting your friend through the process you know all this?
Is this 40% threshold a fairly well recognised principal?
I already have a divorce lawyer but she has backed off whilst the mediation process takes its course but is naturally there if i need advice / guidance through the process and suffice to say she is number one on my list of calls to make on Monday morning!!
The other thing that I think is that there has been no consideration by ex and her solicitor (other than how the hell do i furnish a house when i dont have enough money to eat and petrol in the car) is how do I have the children if I dont even have enough cash to take them for pizza or take them out for the day? Meantime ex has £65 A DAY (!!!!) to live.
I know her solicitor is fighting her corner (and rightly so i guess thats what he is employed to do) and has come up with a wish list but where is his sense of fairness and morality in even putting forward such a suggestion? Either he has no heart or no calculator....... or both!!