Divorce / csa / spousal maintenance

Giraffe5021

New to the forum and looking for help and advice from.....well anyone that can help or advise really!!
Long complicated story so I will try to summarise (but forgive me if I omit something relevant or crucial):
1) split 2 years ago after 20 years of marraige
2) 3 children - 1 of 13, 1 of 10 and 1 of 8
3) ever since split I have paid EVERY ex marital home bill (mortgage, insurance, council tax, sky, utilities etc etc). I did this because I love my kids with all my heart and wanted their lives to continue with minimum of other upset / alteration at what was plainly a difficult time for all concerned). During this time I also paid maintenance of just under £1k pcm.
4) I lodged with my family members to minimise cost but nevertheless outgoings were outstripping income
5) Credit Cards are maxed out (some since the split but significant amount pre dating the split)
6) financial situation has, as you would expect, become critical and cannot continue
7) is a significant salary differential between my earnings and ex's earnings hence need to pay spousal maintenance for a period
8) I walk away from house leaving family there and retain a modest Mesher Charge until house is sold (again trying to minimise any detrimental impact on the children an enforced move may have)
9) we are part way through divorce and are seeing mediator to try to agree amicable financial split (and i would again reiterate I want to do the right thing by my children and ensure that ex is financially ok too).
My proposal is that I pay 25% CSA dictated payment + spousal maintenance which would amount to 35% of my nett monthly income. This would leave me enough to live, clear the credit card debt and establish & furnish a new rented home plus have some food!!
Nett effect of this for ex is by the time she has CSA maintenance, spousal maintenance, salary, working / child tax credit and child benefit she will have nett income equivalent to £50k gross pa.
Evidentally this is not enough!!
Ex has indicated she wants more and mediator appeared to say she felt ex would be entitled to more.
Am I missing something?
I think I have gone out of my way to do what I perceive to be the right thing for all concerned (probably except me!!).
I would appreciate any advice / thoughts / guidance.....and if I am missing something then I am prepared to be shot down in flames but I am being potentially left in a situation where I will have no cash to live and will have no money to establish a new home (albeit rented as I will not be released from the mortgage and will be unable to buy my own property) and furnish it bearing in mind that I am leaving everything in the ex marital home for ex and my children.
Any help you can offer a very worried Dad would be apprecaited greatly!!

valkirn

I understand you wishing to do the right thing but you still need to be able to "live" yourself.

As i understood it there is no such thing as spousal maintenance anymore and they only thing you would be responsible for is maintenance for the children and joint debts. Maybe if you had your solicitor point this out to your ex she may suddenly find she can manage.

If you look under the benefits section there is a section on child maintenance but i'm not sure who can advise you on the spousal maintenance

Giraffe5021

Hi
regretfully there is still spousal maintenance.
It applies where there is significant salary differential between the 2 ex partners.
The bit I dont get is no one seems to factor in the additional benefits she is entitled too.
Yes I may be what they term a high earner but thats no use to me if its all taken away from me!!
In disposal income terms (i.e. after all bills paid) she will have WAY more than me and I currently am living in furnished rented property and frankly its yuk......but without some more sensible financial settlement I will never be able to clear debts and furnish my own place.

valkirn

Ok errrm is there anyway you could pay the maintinance as a lump sum (if you have any savings to do this) then ask for a clean break, as then when the money is all gone your ex would have no come back on you??

RAS

Spousal maintenance only really happens in very wealthy settlements where the parent with care or stay at home partner can prove that they have given up substantial income to support their spouse and family and contributed substantially to the wealth creation during the marriage. Sometimes it is also paid for a short period whilst the partner who stayed at home retrains or updates their employment options. Or when a much older stay at home partner cannot reasonably be expected to re-enter the job market, although you would struggle to get that these days.

It occasionally comes up on this forum because it is only occasionally an issue.

Just to point out as well, that debts of the marriage also go into the pot, so if you have been spending on the cards to pay for the family since the split, these need to be factored in.

And stop paying household bills immediately - Council tax, sky, utilties and contents insurance. I would be tempted to keep buildign insurance.

Change any life insurance so that your ex is not the beneficiary and change your will urgently.

It is hard to say whether £50K is reasonable without knowing your income.

I suggest that you visit a rotweiler solicitor to find out what they think is reasonable and use that as a starting point (you might even tell her that you have taken legal advice).

RAS

Giraffe5021 wrote: »

Hi
regretfully there is still spousal maintenance.
It applies where there is significant salary differential between the 2 ex partners.

So this should be time limited? How long?

Giraffe5021

I have no issue in saying (as this is all anonymous) my gross salary is £80k.
I would emphasise she is not getting £50k of the £80k because a big chunk of her income is made up of benefits but nevertheless her nett income would gross up to £50k.
And the time limit for spousal maintenance is negotiable (in my solicitors opinion 5 years absolute max), but my solicitors advice is that it is payable for a short period to enable ex to reorganise her income / earnings capability whilst children are young. Obviously as they get older her potential and time freedom to secure more lucrative employment will improve.

Bubby

Giraffe5021 wrote: »

New to the forum and looking for help and advice from.....well anyone that can help or advise really!!
Long complicated story so I will try to summarise (but forgive me if I omit something relevant or crucial):
1) split 2 years ago after 20 years of marraige
2) 3 children - 1 of 13, 1 of 10 and 1 of 8
3) ever since split I have paid EVERY ex marital home bill (mortgage, insurance, council tax, sky, utilities etc etc). I did this because I love my kids with all my heart and wanted their lives to continue with minimum of other upset / alteration at what was plainly a difficult time for all concerned). During this time I also paid maintenance of just under £1k pcm.

Why are you paying all of these bills if your wife works and claims benefits? I can understand you paying towards the home but the "extras" such as sky, utilites etc should be paid by her or cancelled (obviously not the utilities)
4) I lodged with my family members to minimise cost but nevertheless outgoings were outstripping income
5) Credit Cards are maxed out (some since the split but significant amount pre dating the split)

These should be included provided they are being used to pay the "marital" bills.
6) financial situation has, as you would expect, become critical and cannot continue
7) is a significant salary differential between my earnings and ex's earnings hence need to pay spousal maintenance for a period
8) I walk away from house leaving family there and retain a modest Mesher Charge until house is sold (again trying to minimise any detrimental impact on the children an enforced move may have)
9) we are part way through divorce and are seeing mediator to try to agree amicable financial split (and i would again reiterate I want to do the right thing by my children and ensure that ex is financially ok too).
My proposal is that I pay 25% CSA dictated payment + spousal maintenance which would amount to 35% of my nett monthly income. This would leave me enough to live, clear the credit card debt and establish & furnish a new rented home plus have some food!!
Nett effect of this for ex is by the time she has CSA maintenance, spousal maintenance, salary, working / child tax credit and child benefit she will have nett income equivalent to £50k gross pa.
Evidentally this is not enough!!
Ex has indicated she wants more and mediator appeared to say she felt ex would be entitled to more.
Am I missing something?

There must be a reason why the mediator is saying this as they are usually impartial. One reason may be to maintain the childrens standard of living or may be that with your spousal maintenance she is unable to claim certain benefits?
I think I have gone out of my way to do what I perceive to be the right thing for all concerned (probably except me!!).
I would appreciate any advice / thoughts / guidance.....and if I am missing something then I am prepared to be shot down in flames but I am being potentially left in a situation where I will have no cash to live and will have no money to establish a new home (albeit rented as I will not be released from the mortgage and will be unable to buy my own property) and furnish it bearing in mind that I am leaving everything in the ex marital home for ex and my children.
Any help you can offer a very worried Dad would be apprecaited greatly!!

I think you are admirable in wanting to put your children first, unfortunately due to the huge salary differences it is likely that spousal maintenance will be awarded to your wife. Have you discussed pensions? i.e if you agree to a mesher order and a smaller split of the house would she be willing to sacrifice your pension or take a smaller portion?
It would be good if you could look into the costs of renting and bills to enable you to give these to the mediator. Don't forget that csa will take money off for the nights that you have your children overnight provided it is over a certain amount.

Giraffe5021

Bubby,

thanks for the reply.
To answer your questions in order:
1) there is no particular reason other than the one I stated - I wanted to do the right thing and minimise any further detrimental impact on my children
2) Playing devil's advocate are the utilities etc my responsibility? I dont live there I have my own utility bills to pay!!
3) I cant see any reason for mediator saying this. Ex's benefits will be totally unaffected. Before CSA maintenance her income + benefits total £1500 pcm and will not be affected by any settlement we reach. On top of CSA maintenance of 25% of my nett pcm she is suggesting a further £800 pcm in spousal maintenance hence my calculation that grossing up her nett income takes her to over £50k gross.
Pensions - my pension pot is significantly higher but this is being factored out by a reduction to me in the equity in the house so that all levels out
Im bewildered and frankly really worried about the future financially!!

Bubby

Giraffe5021 wrote: »

Bubby,

thanks for the reply.
To answer your questions in order:
1) there is no particular reason other than the one I stated - I wanted to do the right thing and minimise any further detrimental impact on my children
2) Playing devil's advocate are the utilities etc my responsibility? I dont live there I have my own utility bills to pay!!
3) I cant see any reason for mediator saying this. Ex's benefits will be totally unaffected. Before CSA maintenance her income + benefits total £1500 pcm and will not be affected by any settlement we reach. On top of CSA maintenance of 25% of my nett pcm she is suggesting a further £800 pcm in spousal maintenance hence my calculation that grossing up her nett income takes her to over £50k gross.
Pensions - my pension pot is significantly higher but this is being factored out by a reduction to me in the equity in the house so that all levels out
Im bewildered and frankly really worried about the future financially!!

The utilities are NOT your responsibility as they are something your wife uses. Spousal maintenance is in fact counted as income by the benefits office so she may have to take this into consideration. Perhaps your mediator is not very impartial? Could you speak to your wife one to one or are things too strained?

Giraffe5021

Strained would be one word!!
She just cant see that 2 homes cannot be run out of same pot of money to the same standard.
I think I got to go back to solicitor.
Mediation may resolve itself but I am getting totally scr*wed!!

Mediator mentioned this legal principle of ex being entitled to 30% of total joint income. Never heard of it. And surely her benefits must count as income??