OS Friday 12th JANUARY

dlb

I to was a school governor for 3 years and we did have a set gifted and talented programme, and schools should give as much help to these kids as the kids with special needs.
They all have different needs, and these should be met which ever group they fall into.

Joannasmum big hugs to you, it is so hard when your child is not theirselfs, and do not be ashamed for losing your temper, what other job in the world is a 24 hour 7 days a week every day of the year job??? A mum will lose their temper more than once in the long hours the job comes with, and this is something we must just learnt to deal with. It may not be right but a mum can only take so much before we snap, some it takes a hour, others a day some weeks and months inbetween outburst, but you know what its normal.
xxxxxxx

lil_me

Yes I must agree with that, I am a school governor and one of my duties is special needs, which includes those who are gifted/talented, just so happens my oldest DS has both special needs because of a disability but is gifted in certain areas aswell. He falls into both groups. One is sometimes funded (but not all the time) by the LEA, and one is not. It does make it extremely difficult to support those who are more talented but a good teacher should be able to vary the learning within the class room to cater for all needs. (My sons teacher manages this fantastically and has 3 year groups in one class which can be a test on it's own)

Roz I am sorry to hear about the youngster who thought that was the only way out, unfortunately it's so heavily publicised now kids seem to think that is what they must do, in a way I do actually feel sorry for the person who has said the hurtful things in some ways, most aren't brought up with the decency to act responsibly and not hurt other peoples feelings with their comments and actions. They don't realise what real hurt they can cause until it is too late. I lost my best friend at 13, she had a severe illness, but I remember the guilt girls in our year felt when they heard she had passed away (due to the illness) as some had made her life which was so short a misery with bullying.

Well Tonight was interesting, sat watching the mind numbing programme that is Coronation Street, I keep missing things like this as I am too busy and get really lost off!

anniebooklover

Bargain_Rzl wrote:

But the point is (and I'm not disagreeing with you at all annie) being "gifted or talented" IS A SPECIAL NEED!!!!!

Why don't schools recognise this?

Bargain I agree with you, gifted and talented children are Special Needs children. All I can say is, that as a governor I have seen the budget that DDs school has to work with and there is VERY LITTLE (and for that read ABSOLUTELY NO) budget for the talented children. There are far more children that need help with reading, writing or arithmetic. As an example, DD sits her KS2 SATs this year (for those who haven't got to this point yet, this is the Key Stage Two Standard Assessment Tests). There is more than one child in her class (she is 10, bear in mind) who has to count, add or subtract to 10 on their hands! There are at least 2 children who are talented and gifted but they get no extra help except perhaps extra homework once a week. Yes, I agree that most state schools do not challenge these gifted children (my children are amongst them) but I do believe that if they are truly meant to succeed, the will to succeed along with the encouragement of their parents, etc, will see them through. I honestly believe that the Government cannot be all things to all parents and they are really doing the best they can with the limited amount of money they have. (If you have fallen asleep by this point I apologise. )

This has the potential to explode into a big debate - I realise that. Can I just say that I personally have witnessed the difference the "Blunkett Money" has made to our school (this was the money that was given to schools to spend as they saw fit - while he was still the education secretary of course). Far more children have had a chance at a decent job because of this than they would have had under previous Government schemes. BTW before anyone jumps on my political persuasion, I have no political leaning as I believe that all politicians serve themselves before their constituents. In saying that, I also believe that everyone SHOULD vote - Aussie I like the fact that your country makes it an obligation to vote. Wish the UK would do the same.

Ooooh, sorry, didn't mean to get on my high horse. SORRY. Bargain I hope you see what I mean though. Please don't beat me with sticks now. Please. Slinks off to a corner

anniebooklover

lil_me wrote:

Yes I must agree with that, I am a school governor and one of my duties is special needs, which includes those who are gifted/talented, just so happens my oldest DS has both special needs because of a disability but is gifted in certain areas aswell. He falls into both groups. One is sometimes funded (but not all the time) by the LEA, and one is not. It does make it extremely difficult to support those who are more talented but a good teacher should be able to vary the learning within the class room to cater for all needs. (My sons teacher manages this fantastically and has 3 year groups in one class which can be a test on it's own)

Lil me I see the point you are making but I have to confess that if my child was being taught by a teacher that had a class that covered 3 year groups as well as special needs at both ends of the spectrum I would be complaining. I honestly can't see how one teacher can possibly teach in those circumstances. How much better would the teaching be within just one year but covering all abilities? I agree with you that a good teacher should be able to teach to all abilities but the scenario you are describing is pushing the boundaries of acceptablility (please understand that this is not a personal dig at you). If I were in your position, I would be speaking to the headteacher and asking for an explanation.

lil_me

Annie I am with you on a lot of that, for all I don't agree with many of the governments policies, I do believe they are doing when it comes to education a pretty good job apart from with special needs schools (personal gripe!) and that parents blame schools for a lot of things which really should be a parental responsibility. For every hour of a childs life it's something like 9 minutes they spend in school, 51 are at home. We have family learning groups running in school, but with very little support as a lot of parents have the attitude of well that's what school is for. If I left it just down to school my son wouldn't be talking or reading now! Getting parents just to read with their children seems like such hard work for some so bringing them into school or sending things home to help them help their children is almost impossible.

With regards to my sons class, he does have an LSA working with him for quite a bit of the day who helps with several children. I did question the situation at first but my sons coming along in leaps and bounds, thankfully, as there are no special needs schools which suit his needs in my local area, his reading age has gone up 1 year and 2 months in a term and was already exceeding his real age of 7 when this was tested. There isn't enough children to split the class, in my sons year there are 7 children. With a school that size it just isn't possible due to funding for staff. I am probably lucky that this year his year group are the youngest in the class now so he's being challenged much more.

My youngests needs however differ somewhat and regardless of what we have tried so far he has a reading age of 4 and is 6 in just over a week, dyslexia programme starts next week, see if we can get somewhere with that.

Bargain_Rzl

Oh I totally see what you mean anniebooklover - its only fair that they should try to bring substandard students as close to average as possible (as they are really the ones who will be long term disadvantaged otherwise) but as somebody with a high IQ myself I just think it's unfair that "average" is the be-all and end-all - do you see what I mean?

dlb

I can view it from both side as most of you will be able too, my ds1 + 2 are on the gifted and talented programme and ds 3 is classed as special needs for literacy ( and as you can see from my spelling some days it makes me wonder if he has my genes!!lol)

I am lucky as our school has excellent teachers who can teach a class of mixed ability and bring the best out in all of them. I do agree that a child who wants to do well will achieve this no matter what is set before them. EG disruptive pupils,bad teaching ect. Especially with support from home.

anniebooklover

Bargain_Rzl wrote:

Oh I totally see what you mean anniebooklover - its only fair that they should try to bring substandard students as close to average as possible (as they are really the ones who will be long term disadvantaged otherwise) but as somebody with a high IQ myself I just think it's unfair that "average" is the be-all and end-all - do you see what I mean?

Bargain, you are absolutely right. My DS and DD both have reading ages years ahead of their actual ages. Both of them have achieved above that expected of them. They both expect to achieve in life and know that their parents expect the same. Still (it is only my humble opinion, mind) there are far more children below the "average" level (for many different reasons) and it is society's job to make sure these children become productive members of society. Yes, those with higher levels of intelligence should be challenged and pushed to achieve their potential but not to the extent that those at the lower end of the scale become nothing more than parasites on the social security system. I feel that the one thing missing from education today is that children are not taught to "expect to achieve" IYSWIM. Aspiration and achievement should be taught in Early Years - don't wait til these kids are at high school - teach them this at the outset.

Bargain_Rzl

I suppose you could argue for NOT funding special education for gifted children on the basis that those children will be likely to seek out their own learning/improvement in later life... :think:

lil_me

Our school now focuses on achievement in a different way, it's not all about average and who gets the highest marks but those who make the biggest improvements. The targets are set to improve on where they are now rather than those under average having somewhere to aim for and those who are above average not, they all have achievment goals to push them on. The children who are under achieving have realistic goals and targets they can achieve and hopefully exceed. Those who are gifted/talented are encouraged to AIM HIGHER!

One of the awards last year (and this is a primary school) was for citizenship, voted for by the children, the girl who got this award was not the most academic, far from it, but such a loving, kind natured young lady who was very supportive of all the other children within the school. When asked what career she would like, she said something that matters where I can care for people like a nurse.

The school has always been low achieving, in an area which is described as being in poverty, with many on social security benefits, with very few going to the school which only accepts children with higher 11+ (SATS as they are now) results. Maybe one a year, but this is increasing, which I find promising.

With regards to the excuses for lack of funding, it's the same for average joe's as some may wish to call them, they get the same deal as the rest, it's rare now in our area to achieve any extra funding for special needs without a very large need there which would usually mean an extra member of staf being required for safety for example. I don't think it's the amount of money you throw at a child that matters but the quality of teaching provided and the amount of support from home they get that really matters.

(Yes for some mad reason I am training to be a teacher eventually when I have done my degree as I want to be a teacher that makes a difference, currently volunteer within school when I can with various things)