Gas & Leccy Costs 2011-2015

Richie-from-the-Boro

I've just posted this in response to a question elsewhere, however many in this group will find it useful I hope.

Social tariff's were replaced this April with " Warm Front Home Discount Scheme ", read all about it here


The Coalition Government committed to use these powers provided for by the Energy Act 2010. In March 2011 it established a scheme, called the Warm Home Discount, to run from 1 April 2011 until March 2015.The scheme will offer a rebate off electricity bills for customers in two distinct groups. The first group is the “Core Group” which consists of older pensioner households on low-incomes who are in receipt of a subset of pension credit; it is a clearly defined group. The second group is the “Broader Group” which will be left to energy suppliers to define, but which may include low income families and those with long-term illnesses and disabilities. Both groups will be granted a rebate of £120 in Year 1, £130 in Year 2, £135 in Year 3 and £140 in Year 4 off their electricity bills.

skater_kat

thanks richie for the info.

do we know how this govt deal compares to exisiting provisions of myriad social tariffs? are we better or worse off!!

kingfisherblue

Thanks for the post Richie - we are a low income family and my son is disabled (lifelong complex special needs, no cure), so hopefully we will qualify for the discount in the second group. My mum will qualify in the first group.

I assume that people will have to apply for the discount, but how do I do this? Do I just ring my supplier?

Anubis_2

Do you know if the cap is still in place for low income families?

I ***think*** it used to be 12,000 per year but everything was taken into account, including housing benefit, council tax and any other income and also including DLA.

However, from what you say, long term disability comes into play this time, hence why I am wondering if there is still a cap.

Richie-from-the-Boro

skater_kat wrote: »

thanks richie for the info.

do we know how this govt deal compares to existing provisions of myriad social tariffs? are we better or worse off!!

I don't know to be frank, and we never knew before. You see it used to be an ad-hoc voluntary system, to know or compare the benefit between :

- one individual and another individual
- the same individual between say year 2010 and year 2011
- etc

The facts were that all providers agreed to help with fuel poverty by having a discounted price for certain groups in society, but there was no consistency between different providers, the figures were hidden, different utilities had different qualifying hurdles and the general public were largely unaware the ' social tariff ' even existed.

Now because previously no one individual knew what another individual was given and what qualified them to have it unless someone was prepared to put details of their private finances it never became public knowledge. These discounts then were never on the comparison sites and as far as I'm aware are sill not on them.

I do know for example my own supplier Scottish Power used the subset of pension credit as a qualifier and when the convoluted calculations were done with kWh per annum / regional code / discounts for DD and internet readings / etc it came out to a guarantee of 2% less than the lowest any~~other tariff they give.

So from April this year :

- what was voluntary is now legislated
- what was a negotiated variable is now a fixed rate discount
- what was a maybe is now a definite yes if you qualify
- what used to be different passports to the benefit are now only two the core and the other
- the core group is passported with pension credit
- the second other “Broader Group” will still be left to energy suppliers to define, but which may include low income families and those with long-term illnesses and disabilities

All in all we now know what figure to expect, we know we all get the same figure from the same supplier, and we all know we get the same figure regardless of which different supplier you are with.

Unfortunately the second “Broader Group” will have to argue for their discount just as they always did under the old system .. .. .. but it will now be much harder for the utilities supplier to fob people off because it has the backing of legislation. Under the old system some of the so called cheaper ' social tariff's were more expensive than those already on offer, with the new legislation they should not be able to get away with that any more .. .. .. hopefully !

NOTE:

The consultation document proposed four key areas of support:

• A Core Group – this would be the majority of spend from energy suppliers over the four years of the scheme (2011-12 to 2014-15). These are a well-targeted group of the poorest pensioners who have a high propensity to fuel poverty and a higher risk of excess winter deaths. This section of the model would build on the 2010 Energy Rebate Scheme, a successful data matching pilot between DWP, DECC and the six major energy suppliers that resulted in an £80 rebate being provided to over 200,000 of the poorest pensioner households this year.

• A Broader Group – whilst the Core Group have a high tendency to be fuel poor, it is recognised that other groups are at risk of fuel poverty. The proposals would therefore also ensure some support will be available for other groups of vulnerable consumers.

Richie-from-the-Boro

There are two areas I can't find definitive info on, one of them is will those on the current ' social tariff ' be automatically transferred to the new " Warm Front Home Discount Scheme " by their supplier, I just don't know whether such an undertaking was agreed.

The other one is which people [ type ] form the 2nd ' broader group ' group. They differences between the two groups seem to be legally defined as :

Core Group = persons in fuel poverty
Broader Group = in risk of fuel poverty

There is a lot of regulatory technical [ make your eyes bleed ] stuff here and this seems to be the qualifying criteria for the ' broader group ' - see below : -

Broader group

PART 1 - Eligibility criteria: descriptions of persons satisfying Condition 1
1. A person who is in receipt of income support and — (a) has parental responsibility for a child under the age of 5 who ordinarily resides with that person; or (b) is in receipt of a qualifying component.

2. A person who is in receipt of income-related employment and support allowance which includes a work-related activity or support component and — (a) has parental responsibility for a child under the age of 5 who ordinarily resides with that person; or (b) is in receipt of a qualifying component.

3. A person who is in receipt of income-based job seeker’s allowance and — (a) has parental responsibility for a child under the age of 5 who ordinarily resides with that person; or (b) is in receipt of a qualifying component.

4. A person who is in receipt of state pension credit.

PART 2 - Verification measures referred to in regulation 19(7)(a)

1. Obtaining from each customer, orally or in writing — (a) the customer’s name, address and telephone number; (b) a declaration that the customer meets the supplier’s eligibility criteria; and (c) an explanation of how the customer meets those criteria.

2. Explaining to each customer that the customer may be asked to provide further evidence of eligibility before receiving a rebate under the Warm Home Discount scheme.

3. In relation to at least 5% of the number of customers which the compulsory scheme electricity supplier provides with the prescribed rebate in a scheme year, obtaining documentary evidence before providing the prescribed rebate that the customer meets the suppliers eligibility criteria.

PART 3 - Interpretation

In this Schedule — “documentary evidence” includes copies of documents; “qualifying component” means — (a) child tax credit which includes a disability or severe disability element; (b) a disabled child premium; (c) a disability premium, enhanced disability premium or severe disability premium; (d) a pensioner premium, higher pensioner premium or enhanced pensioner premium.

bloss0m

I rang up warm front and was told to ring DECT 0300 0604000 I was told that if I am eligible they will contact me earlier next year for the discount scheme

rubys_mummy

does anyone know if you just ring up your current supplier about this? and if so, what would you ask? just about lower bills for the long term disabled?

sorry if this has been covered already, i wasn't sure where to look.....thanks x

Mupette

rubys_mummy wrote: »

does anyone know if you just ring up your current supplier about this? and if so, what would you ask? just about lower bills for the long term disabled?

sorry if this has been covered already, i wasn't sure where to look.....thanks x

was speaking to mine today and they told me about it..


Warm Home Discount Scheme just ask them about it..

rogerblack

Some of the causes for rises are regrettable government policy.

For example - the feed-in-tarriff.

Reducing carbon emissions is a good idea - both from an environmental point of view, which some may doubt, and from the fact that oil/gas is an increasingly expensive commodity on the world markets.

However - the current scheme is fundamentally broken.
It pays to put the panels in the absolutely most expensive place - on a roof, in tiny quantities.
It pays out ridiculous amounts in subsidies, and requires the use of approved contractors.

For example - to get panels installed on roofs costs (around) 3.50/W.

To purchase in 5kw quantities, panels are around 1.15/W. (see bottom).
Assuming you can purchase poor agricultural land, perhaps south facing underutilised slopes, and the inverter, that is likely to leave you change from 2 pounds a watt.

And yet, we're subsidising a bogus industry, rather than doing it the economically sensible way.
Having people install panels in tiny quantities on peoples roofs, rather than 50kW plus in fields makes _no_ sense. People could even buy shares in these, or raise money for them, and get (approximately halved) FIT.

The only people that gain by this are the 'solar industry' - who are effective at lobbying, but somewhat less use to the country than traffic wardens.


http://www.affordable-solar.com/store/solar-panels-by-the-pallet/kyocera-KD235GX-LPB-235-watt-solar-panel-pallet

Richie-from-the-Boro

rogerblack wrote: »

Some of the causes for rises are regrettable government policy.

For example - the feed-in-tarriff.

Reducing carbon emissions is a good idea - both from an environmental point of view, which some may doubt, and from the fact that oil/gas is an increasingly expensive commodity on the world markets.

However - the current scheme is fundamentally broken.
It pays to put the panels in the absolutely most expensive place - on a roof, in tiny quantities.
It pays out ridiculous amounts in subsidies, and requires the use of approved contractors.

For example - to get panels installed on roofs costs (around) 3.50/W.

To purchase in 5kw quantities, panels are around 1.15/W. (see bottom).
Assuming you can purchase poor agricultural land, perhaps south facing underutilised slopes, and the inverter, that is likely to leave you change from 2 pounds a watt.

And yet, we're subsidising a bogus industry, rather than doing it the economically sensible way.
Having people install panels in tiny quantities on peoples roofs, rather than 50kW plus in fields makes _no_ sense. People could even buy shares in these, or raise money for them, and get (approximately halved) FIT.

The only people that gain by this are the 'solar industry' - who are effective at lobbying, but somewhat less use to the country than traffic wardens.


http://www.affordable-solar.com/store/solar-panels-by-the-pallet/kyocera-KD235GX-LPB-235-watt-solar-panel-pallet

C'mon Rodg,

Its a big leap from fuel poverty / social tariff's and a thread title of ''' Gas & Leccy Costs 2011-2015 '''' to solar power and a new thread title inserted.

You've moved it :

From - (a) child tax credit which includes a disability or severe disability element; (b) a disabled child premium; (c) a disability premium, enhanced disability premium or severe disability premium; (d) a pensioner premium, higher pensioner premium or enhanced pensioner premium.

To - a subject area no one asked about and totally out of the context of the thread and its responders.

Did you mean to post it elsewhere my friend :beer: