Teachers please - Y4 expected SATS levels

Gingham_R

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Children with genuine learning disabilities are encouraged to go to another local school which will meet their needs much better (and they do.) Our Head is not ashamed to say that as a large, high performing school, he can't cater for specific disabilities. Please don't shoot the messenger!.

What a terrible shame. Do the high IQ kids with special needs get asked to go to the other school too?

No shooting! You sound like you're doing a great job!

Gingham_R

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Children with a high IQ and also performing above 130 in age standardised tests are included in gifted & talented activities, of which there are very few, in my opinion. All work in the classroom is tailored to ability though. There are children in every class that fall within this category.

That's a really good start. I'd also add children who have high IQ and are NOT performing well in age standardised tests, because the higher the IQ the more likely that they'll underachieve without extra support. (Because they're not engaged in the curriculum.)

I'd also be looking at children who perform exceptionally highly in one area and lower in another area, bringing their IQ down to 'normal', as that can indicate a special need or asynchronous development.

Has your head thought of joining the NAGC? I'm asking because it sounds like a head who is interested in helping get the best out of the higher ability kids.

thatgirlsam

pleasedelete wrote: »

Unless she has been taught level 8 which would usually involve teaching from a linked secondary school she cannot be assessed at level 8. You can just pick the bits you want and say well in this part she would be level 8. She would have had to be taught the entire syllabus which is highly unlikely unless the primary teacher is a specialist maths teacher and suitably qualified to assess at gcse level or she has been taught the full syllabus by a qualified secondary teacher who could assess this.

As I said, she is taught maths by a seperate teacher.. who has told me she is working around level 8

Now I realise that my be just her opinion as she hasn't been formally assessed

But I'm not sure how you can be so adamant that my dd isn't working at level 8 when you don't know her from adam!

One of the things I am coming to realise is that a lot of people (other parents) just do not beleive that she is capable of working to this standard

It really puts you off mentioning it to anyone as they pooh pooh it as either me showing off or having ideas above my station

Beleive me, I have no reason to exaggerate what she is doing

I am just a normal mum and not a show off - I also have a 6 year old who can barely read so know what its like at the other end of the scale

There does seem to be an awful lot of predjudice towards high acheiving children that I have noticed

Gingham_R

thatgirlsam wrote: »

There does seem to be an awful lot of predjudice towards high acheiving children that I have noticed

There is. And prejudice towards parents of highly able children too. Pushy/unrealistic/lying/hothousing...

I'll pm you about the NAGC. No-one bats an eyelid when you tell them your 11 year old finds year 9 maths easy or your 4 year old taught himself to read or your 7 year old is working out how elements bond together. They are who they are and the nature of a ;normal curve of distribution' is that it's NORMAL to have DISTRIBUTION!

JC9297

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Children with genuine learning disabilities are encouraged to go to another local school which will meet their needs much better (and they do.) Our Head is not ashamed to say that as a large, high performing school, he can't cater for specific disabilities. Please don't shoot the messenger!

QUOTE]

I was actually quite gobsmacked to read this!

Are you really saying that the head of a state school asks children to leave when he realises that they might jeapardise the schools position in the league tables? When you say another local school, is it a special school or another mainstream school that is actually bothering to meet their needs. Many children with learning difficulties manage fine in mainstream, particularly at primary level.

As to not catering for specific disabilities, other schools manage, perhaps because meeting the needs of the children is more important than being seen as high-performing. The head should be ashamed. State primary schools are not meant to be selective.

chaplin1409

All schools should be able to have all types of children in it the gifted and the ones that need the extra help, I would be totally ashamed to belong to a school who send children to another school if they dont fit in.


Lunar Eclipse you mentioned watching the op daughter to make sure she is happy at school etc this is a bit problem we are having at school with my daughter she has always loved school and is doing great, she has just done year 5 tests (we are in Wales so not SATs) and scored 100% her maths test and 98% in her mental maths. This has been causing great trouble over the last term or so as she is just not fitting in with the other children she wants to work not mess around etc and is now causing her to not want to go to school. I was wondering if you had any suggestions as the school are not really being that helpful.



Thanks

Michaela

Lunar_Eclipse

QUOTE]
Are you really saying that the head of a state school asks children to leave when he realises that they might jeapardise the schools position in the league tables?[/QUOTE]


No, absolutely not. Nobody is ever asked to leave. We are a junior school, so most parents of children with identified learning disabilities approach the school to see if it is a suitable environment for their child before applying. They will also usually be guided by the linked infant schools. As with any school and children that are all different, some matches of school with child are better than others. So some parents realise that it is not in their child's best interests to choose this particular school. Clearly the school cannot turn anyone away that meets the LEA entry criteria.

Parents generally want their children to succeed at school and to fit in academically and socially. We have several state primary schools in our area, some cater better for gifted children, some for children with particular difficulties etc. All within the mainstream, I'm not talking about special schools (although we have a few of those too.)

I agree that schools should be able to meet the needs of all children, but firstly, by whose definition? The government's? They would say they already do. Parents? Children? Teachers? See the problem? It's just the tip of the iceberg.

Lunar_Eclipse

Chaplin - I've replied to your pm.

milliebear00001

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Assuming the IQ score was representative of the child's intelligence and not a one off obscure result, it is logical to assume that child is less likely to achieve highly than one with a much higher IQ. In general. That is the purpose of the test, namely to test one's innate intelligence as opposed to knowledge gained. As with anything though, there is a margin of error and exceptions that challenge the rule. Additionally, they could be used to draw dangerous assumptions, but I have not seen that to be the case at our school. Interestingly, most children at our school perform very loosely in line with their IQ and substantial deviations are given considerable thought. I suppose the tests are ultimately done to capture those children displaying deviations. That surely can only be a good thing.

I know there is controversy surrounding IQ tests and some people over and under perform in relation to it at school. Personally however, I do believe they help gain an overall picture of a child's potential and progress and thus see them as beneficial to the child.

You assume that intelligence is firstly, definable and accurately measurable, and secondly, largely innate (if you rely on an IQ test as an accurate measure). These are highly controversial assumptions, for which there is much evidence against. Basing a child's whole education on such a blunt, one-off tool, and even worse, assuming that this result is then fixed, would be a huge mistake in my view. It is the mistake made by the old 11 plus tests which were supposed to 'sort out' the higher achievers from the rest - except of course, that's not quite how it worked for a multitude of children.

Your school (for example) does extremely well in the stats, not because its children are innately more 'intelligent' than other schools' children, but because of your demographic intake of well-supported children with invested parents.

It is a mistake (in my view) to 'decide' a child's outcomes, and (however subconsciously) 'cap' them at the age of 7-8.

I note you mention your Head 'encourages' less 'high-flying' children to go to schools where they can be better accommodated. How convenient for him/her not to have to bother striving to create a school where all children's needs are met!

FBaby

thatgirlsam wrote: »

As I said, she is taught maths by a seperate teacher.. who has told me she is working around level 8

Now I realise that my be just her opinion as she hasn't been formally assessed

But I'm not sure how you can be so adamant that my dd isn't working at level 8 when you don't know her from adam!

One of the things I am coming to realise is that a lot of people (other parents) just do not beleive that she is capable of working to this standard

It really puts you off mentioning it to anyone as they pooh pooh it as either me showing off or having ideas above my station

Beleive me, I have no reason to exaggerate what she is doing

I am just a normal mum and not a show off - I also have a 6 year old who can barely read so know what its like at the other end of the scale

There does seem to be an awful lot of predjudice towards high acheiving children that I have noticed

Are you sure she said Level 8 and not Year 8? Not wanting to belittle your daughter's achievements, but I started reading your messages and your daughter's levels which seem similar to my daughter's (Y6, scored 98 twice at practice SATS and expected to reach level 6 at end of year which is as high as they will grade) and I was told she was at the level of Y8 (that is two years ahead). What just wondering if they might have been a misunderstanding.