Non-Halal kebab meat

DazedByTheLight

I have seen lots of links to the study proving that halal slaughter causes less pain to the animals.

So far only one person (amosworks) claims to have seen other studies with the opposite result and refuses to post the links. Pardon my scepticism.

meher

For people who think one way of killing is kinder than the other

All
tremble at the rod,
all
hold their life dear.
Drawing the parallel to
yourself,
neither kill nor get others to kill

You might not be interested and unlikely you've even heard - nevertheless for those who are interested, this is a quote from a great saint - Siddhartha Gauthama, the Buddha


Anyway a few points - Halal way of killing animals is for the pure purpose of draining every ounce of blood. Any other killing however 'civilized' have blood remaining, which is a source for fermentation and leaves room for bacteria to grow. It isn't just about being religious, the essence is not to have meat that contains blood. And Halal products are organic because of the way they are fed and they are quarantined 40 days before killing.

lynzpower

I agree

Once youve accepted that eating meat makes you a murderer with the almost- clean hands ( im a meat eater, I accepted my role in it all) why do you give a s**t how it was killed. You want to eat a dead animal, dont try and polish yourself up as being non cruel, its YOUR fault as a meat eater that animal died.

In saying that I bought some halal chicken the other day and it tasted absolutely divine. Id sooner eat less and nicer, than mechnically recovered offal formed onto a stick any day of the week. ( although of course there is an ethical value in ensuring every scrap of the animal is utilised)

amosworks

scheming_gypsy wrote:

offset it against how much you'll save on takeaway kebabs. £3.50 for a kebab, £1 for the chips and 50p for a can of coke. That's £5 a kebab, so 30 kebabs and you've got your money back.

I don't eat chips and I don't drink cola though lol. So that £150 / £3.5 means about 43 kebabs. At 1 a week though it would be nearly a year before it paid for itself. But I'd still get one if it laster for a year, but would want to earn the money first and not wait for it to pay itself back over a year though lol. *Still salivating*

DazedByTheLight wrote:

I have seen lots of links to the study proving that halal slaughter causes less pain to the animals.
So far only one person (amosworks) claims to have seen other studies with the opposite result and refuses to post the links. Pardon my scepticism.

You can pardon yourself all you like honey, that link posted contain zero actual scientific data either way. As I already mentioned, the org providing this "study" you are referring to carries a PayPal donation on the homepage. Go figure. Why not actually take the effort to search the Internet for evidence that goes against your strange little opinion? I already said I need not justify myself as I have already taken the time out to do my own research. Show me the results love, show me the results. QED and so pardoned you are.

meher wrote:

...You might not be interested and unlikely you've even heard - nevertheless for those who are interested, this is a quote from a great saint - Siddhartha Gauthama, the Buddha
...
Halal way of killing animals is for the pure purpose of draining every ounce of blood. Any other killing however 'civilized' have blood remaining, which is a source for fermentation and leaves room for bacteria to grow. It isn't just about being religious, the essence is not to have meat that contains blood
...
Halal products are organic because of the way they are fed and they are quarantined 40 days before killing.

Firstly, please leave you hocus pocus at the door. We've already seen a post re-iterating the dangers of scientific data being misinterpreted because of personal religious views and we certainly don't want that now, do we?

I would prefer my meat to have blood remain anyway as this is more natural. Don't lose your head about you, and again as already mentioned, it's more natural to understand that humans have been eating the meat of other animals for some great time uncooked. It would have contained lots of blood and there's nothing inherently bad about eating meat with blood in. Cooking it can only make it safer. However my concern is not for blood, it is for the welfare of the animal.

Quarantining an animal for 40 days is good how? We already have scientific data (again free on the Internet for anyone who cares to look) that animals become distressed when isolated from other animals. (although I would like to point out that those scientists, Australian I believe, also found that sheep recognise faces, some sheep have lesbian relations and cows can give each other the cold-shoulder :rolleyes:)

lynzpower wrote:

Once youve accepted that eating meat makes you a murderer with the almost- clean hands ( im a meat eater, I accepted my role in it all) why do you give a s**t how it was killed. You want to eat a dead animal, dont try and polish yourself up as being non cruel, its YOUR fault as a meat eater that animal died.

lol @ murderer, lol @ fault. Oh you and that moral-high-horse-brigade love :rolleyes: I should keep a diary, you can't make this stuff up! You do realise that it's entirely natural and good to eat other animals and it's something that's been going on for quite a few million years? In fact without it, you could kiss goodbye to everything you know and see.

I like your use of the words murderer and fault to explain the natural life cycle. You might see it as bad, but in the natural world there is no such thing, no right or wrong, there is only survival. BUT, I am not justifying my decision to do what nature intended and eat meat. Your pro-/anti- meat rant is going off on a tangent.

I am trying to justify my decision that the animals should ideally die as quickly and painlessly as possible. Halal does not accomplish this. I fail to see how an animal, conscious, responsive and bleeding to death for up to four hours, can possibly not be cruel. You can, and are welcome, to justify in your own little world that if it costs a bit more and tastes nice than it's worth this extra animal suffering.

After all, you have accepted your role in it all

---

I must work. Meat or not, being self employed if I don't work I don't eat at all

meher

amosworks wrote:

Why not actually take the effort to search the Internet for evidence that goes against your strange little opinion?

Firstly, please leave you hocus pocus at the door.

lol @ murderer, lol @ fault. Oh you and that moral-high-horse-brigade love :rolleyes:

I am trying to justify my decision that the animals should ideally die as quickly and painlessly as possible. Halal does not accomplish this.

You call on opinion/views and ridicule them - it's neither smart nor clever specially that you've done no more that repeating your unintelligent views like a stuck record. This thread was not started in good faith - it reflects blatant ignorance and exposes of the prejudice you harbor within yourself and beyond doubt this thread was started with the intent to propogate against halal killing - it's not wrong in itself nevertheless cheap shot, when you're obviously not capable of giving an informed opinion and instead you resort to ridiculing responses.

Despite being a strict vegan who does not kill, eat or live on animals, I made an attempt to give a very balanced view which your narrow little mind just couldn't comprehend.

And it's a rule I don't break - one that I do not engage in a conversation with ignorant people and so do consider your response if any, to be royally ignored.

rockykabir

tbh...it's pointless even discussing the matter if the OP isn't bothered to be more open minded. As I mentioned, I am willing to hear his/her side of the argument providing he/she can provide valid links and proofs for his reasonings....as such, I have seen none

amosworks

rockykabir wrote:

tbh...it's pointless even discussing the matter if the OP isn't bothered to be more open minded. As I mentioned, I am willing to hear his/her side of the argument providing he/she can provide valid links and proofs for his reasonings....as such, I have seen none

As I keep saying, I am in favour of getting off your !!!! and making the effort to find the facts. Something you seem unwilling (or unable?) to do. If you won't/can't use Google and have no interest in thinking for yourself, it certainly isn't my loss. I would also like to remind you that this thread also contains no pro-Halal evidence either.

meher wrote:

...instead you resort to ridiculing responses...your narrow little mind just couldn't comprehend....engage in a conversation with ignorant people...royally ignored.

Love, you quite literally took the words right out of my mouth. I must admit your post did make me laugh in that whole "do what I say and not what I do" attitude you type of people seem to have. Doubtless that lack of meat in your system has somehow affected your brain chemistry

I would again like to point out that nobody has yet posted any pro-Halal evidence whatsoever. It seems that those of you who point out I have posted no links seem to have slightly overlooked this on your side of the argument.

lol, open minded indeed :rolleyes:

ajhemingway

amosworks wrote:

In all honesty because I don't need to, my OP was for recipe suggestions for a non-Halal kebab because I've already taken the time out for myself to do the research and come up with my own conclusions instead of being told other people's opinions. I believe people should think for themselves and if they are interested in it, the information is available.

Whilst I haven't taken the effort to post any links, the information isn't hard to find and we have yet to have any real evidence posted either for or against. Apart from the above neutral link, all we've had is a link to an pro-Islamic "art and literature site" who take PayPal donations on the homepage.

... which itself was referring directly to a piece of peer-reviewed scientific research in a published journal (Deutsche Tierärztliche Wochenschrift, issue 85, pages 62-66, dated February 5th 1978). Until you can provide a link to something as scientifically robust to support your position, your argument has no foundation.

Gabriel-Ernest

I have no particular axe to grind on this issue, although I had heard informally that throat-cutting reduced the pain for animals. I've found this report from Compassion In World Farming which suggests the opposite is true, and that some Muslim countries in the Middle East are preparing to implement stunning:

http://www.ciwf.org.uk/publications/reports/animal_welfare_problems_in_uk_slaughterhouses_2001.pdf

rockykabir

amosworks wrote:

As I keep saying, I am in favour of getting off your !!!! and making the effort to find the facts. Something you seem unwilling (or unable?) to do. If you won't/can't use Google and have no interest in thinking for yourself, it certainly isn't my loss. I would also like to remind you that this thread also contains no pro-Halal evidence either.

I frankly find that quite insulting. I posted several links after extensively ploughing through Google and Google Scholar for your benefit. FYI, the slaughter of animals isn't a huge area of research for many PhD students - so finding sources (especially those in German and my level of this language is only GCSE) is quite difficult.

From what I remember, the only links I remember you posting was one from the BNP website and another from a meat industry journal.

If these aren't consider to be biased sources, I don't know what are. Forget about the BNP as we all know what their agenda is, but Meatinfo are from the meat trades industry. It is obvious that Kosher/Halal means of slaughter are more time consuming (hence the industry's need for mass "shock" methods to make things more efficient and cost effective) and thus they are likely to have an agenda to promote less messy (and modern) means of slaughtering. If you think that the mass production meat industries really give a crap about the welfare of animals, then you are sadly mistaken mate.

EDIT: FYI, I've posted the abovementioned links that amosworks posted below:

amosworks wrote:

http://www.meatinfo.co.uk/articles/23043/Halal-row-forces-sourcing---rethink.aspx
http://www.bnp.org.uk/reg_showarticle.php?contentID=1322

amosworks wrote:

lol, open minded indeed :rolleyes:

:T