[TEXT DELETED BY FORUM TEAM] protective wall coating salesman on doorstep

mrbell

no it isnt.! IF you take a peek at what i have written you might see what i mean

steph25

I've clicked on all three of mr bells links and they are information on
How to spot cowboy traders
How to get rid of them
Your legal rights
How to complain
and so on...
Might be on a site run by a company dealing in wallcoating but these specific pages are advice.
Very helpfull advice mr bell thank you

hev_2

Can't find MrBell's original post - can anyone put up the links?

Many Thanks

Hev

mrbell

well, despite what i said about it not being an advert (I do not commercially benefit in any way people reading the info and research i have done), so your moderator has kindly removed the links!!!!!!
:mad:

go onto google and simply type in "wallcoatings" and my site should be #1. (:))

then go to the ARTICLES section and find them from there.
sorry about this, i was onyl trying to help, but no, whoever moderates the site rckons it was an advert which is nOT.

mrbell

in fact, i will try and post one of the articles here, MODERATOR, AGAIN THIS IS NOT AN ADVERT!!!!!! I AM TRYING TO HELP!!! PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING INFO. THANK YOU


Dont buy a wallcoating from a door canvasser!

Have you been approached by someone out of the blue offering a wallcoating treatment for your home? While by no means all of these companies are con-men, some are genuine, but we feel you need to be made aware of a few things in order that you choose the right company for you, and are NOT pressured by false deals. Consumers beware! Why not read this handy consumer guide, collated from various sources.
NPA, the consumers champion! Dont be ripped off by cold calling

Beware of junk mail through your door taking the form of a coloured envelope with a very cleverly written letter and reply card, or people knocking at your door claimning to be a "promotions manager" or a "marketing manager". Dont fall for it! They are commission based door canvassers and they want YOUR MONEY!!!! The special offers they promise are usually false, if they say 40% off, they mean they will initially give you an artificially high price, then take 40% off that, usually making it the price that they wanted to sell it to you in the first place!

Doorstep-selling legislation needs to be updated to combat the psychological tactics employed by many salespeople, say two Sussex psychologists in a report for the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), published earlier this year

The study into the practice of selling goods and services on the doorstep and in the home, worth at least £2.4 billion a year, found that a range of sales tactics and influencing techniques can lead consumers to make inappropriate purchases that they later regret.

This highlights a gap in consumer protection. The current legislation gives consumers who are cold-called a seven-day period in which to cancel a contract. This protection does not apply to consumers who asked for the visit, even though research by Dr Helga Dittmar and Emma Halliwell indicates that these consumers are no better prepared to resist these sales tactics.

At least 15,000 complaints a year are made to trading standards departments regarding doorstep sales. Most respondents to the survey said they felt buying in the home was more pressurised than other settings.

Helga and Emma identified six psychological influencing principles:

1. Reciprocity - creating in the consumer a feeling of indebtedness to the salesperson. Free samples, services and discounts can transform a business transaction into a social visit, imitating that of a friend.

2. Consistency and commitment - building up the consumer's commitment to the product so that a decision not to purchase looks inconsistent. Using personal information gleaned from the consumer's home to gain agreement that they are interested in a product 'if the price is right' means that the seller can remind the consumer of this commitment when offering a discount.

3. Scarcity and anticipated regret - generating a sense of urgency and of loss if a purchase is not made. People dislike feeling regret and are motivated to avoid it.

4. Social proof - making the consumer feel they are like everyone else who bought the product. People have a tendency to use the behaviour of others as a guideline for their own.

5. Liking and similarity - gaining information about a consumer's likes and dislikes in order to identify with them, build a rapport and gain their trust. People prefer to say yes to someone they like and liking is increased by perceived similarity.

6. Authority and expert endorsement - working on the principle that people will defer to expert opinion.

As a result of the study, the OFT is recommending that government should extend legislation to give cancellation rights to solicited visits as well as unsolicited. The OFT will also run a consumer education campaign to raise awareness of consumers' rights and alert them to the psychological techniques used and how to combat them.

Info from the University of Sussex newsletter.

Information from the OFT office of fair trading

Doorstep selling - how to handle doorstep sellers

Here are the six most common sales tactics used by doorstep sellers and some advice on how to handle them.

* Sales tactic 1 - You're made to feel 'grateful'
* Sales tactic 2 - You're made to feel as if you have lots in common
* Sales tactic 3 - You're made to feel as if there is a great sense of urgency
* Sales tactic 4 - You're made to feel committed to the product
* Sales tactic 5 - You're made to feel that you will be just as happy as all the other contented consumers
* Sales tactic 6 - You're made to feel as if the product/service is endorsed by an expert
Sales tactic 1 - You're made to feel 'grateful'

How it works

The friendly salesperson turns up on your doorstep with a gift, maybe a plant or chocolates.

How they hope you'll react
It seems rude not to invite the salesperson in - and because you've been given something, you feel you have to give something back.

How to react

* Don't forget this is a business transaction and you don't need to treat the seller like a friend.
* If you don't want them to come in - don't invite them, it is your home not their business premises.
Sales tactic 2 - You're made to feel as if you have lots in common

How it works

The salesperson picks up on things you have in your home - perhaps photos of your family or hobbies and pretends that they are keen on the same things.

How they hope you'll react
This is to gain your trust and build the 'friendship' - you're more likely to buy from a friend than from a salesperson.

How to react

* Don't get drawn into a conversation about your family or interests.
* Don't forget this is a business transaction not a social call.

Sales tactic 3 - You're made to feel as if there is a great sense of urgency

How it works

The salesperson warns you that there are hardly any left - and they've worked hard to get a special discount, just for you. They often pretend to 'check' with their boss, then say that if you don't order now you'll miss out.

How they hope you'll react.

You're being pushed into making up your mind and signing a contract on the spot without any time to reflect. You'll feel grateful for the special treatment.

How to react

* Refuse to be taken in and say that you want time to consider, that you never buy on impulse.
* Remember the price quoted may really be far too high to start with - you won't know if you haven't shopped around beforehand.

Sales tactic 4 - You're made to feel committed to the product

How it works

The salesperson is trained to get you to agree to a series of harmless statements. For example, 'Wouldn't it make life easier if you didn't have to struggle upstairs?' When you keep answering 'yes', you are starting to say 'yes' to the sale without realising it.

How they hope you'll react

You'll feel too embarrassed not to buy when you've implied that you will and don't know how to back-track.

How to react

* Don't worry about thinking you sound foolish - it's a sales technique not a friendly conversation.
* Don't let them ask the questions. You ask them.
* If you don't have control, tell them to leave.

Sales tactic 5 - You're made to feel that you will be just as happy as all the other contented consumers

How it works

The salesperson talks of lots of people like you who have bought the product.

How they hope you'll react
You'll feel reassured that you're getting a good deal.

How to react

* Focus on whether the price and product are right for you.

Sales tactic 6 - You're made to feel as if the product/service is endorsed by an expert

How it works

The salesperson will emphasise that the product or service has been thoroughly tested and is approved by a professional association, charity, celebrity or council.

How they hope you'll react
You're reassured by a credible endorsement.

How to react

* Check out the reference for yourself by phoning up the organisation concerned."
Remember: it's your doorstep, your decision.

Doorstep selling - your legal rights
If you decide to buy

Always get things you've agreed with the salesperson in writing, ideally on the contract.
If you change your mind

If you change your mind about your purchase, the legal protection you have depends on whether the visit was 'solicited' or 'unsolicited'. You solicit a call if you respond to an advert or ask them to visit.
Solicited visits

If the visit was solicited, and you asked the salesperson to come, you do not have the right to cancel the contract. It's very important not to sign anything until you are quite sure the product or service is what you want and is the right price for you.
Unsolicited visits

But if the visit was unsolicited and you were cold-called (someone called in person or they phoned you to make an appointment without you asking them to) you have around seven days to change your mind - the 'cooling-off' period. You could have longer if the salesperson didn't mention your cancellation rights. You can cancel any contract that you've signed for goods and services above the value of £35.

Unless you need the work done urgently, do not agree for goods to be installed during the cooling off period as you may lose your right to cancel the contract. If you do change your mind, act fast. Cancel in writing and get proof of cancellation - so keep a copy of an email or fax receipt or recorded delivery slip.

Doorstep selling - three things to remember

1. Check the seller's identity

Were you expecting them? If not, be very cautious. If you are interested in what they are selling, you can ask them to come back at another time that is more convenient for you - for example, when you have someone else with you.

Always ask for an identity card and look at it carefully. The important thing is to be sure they are who they say they are. Check their identity by ringing their company using a number from the phonebook, not a number they give you.

2. Take control - you ask the questions

If you decide to have a meeting with a doorstep seller, make sure you are in control, not the salesperson. Remember it is a business situation, not a chat with a friend. Be aware of the six sales techniques.

3. Don't sign on the spot - shop around

How do you know if the price is right? Check with other companies offering the same product first. Don't be hurried into a decision even if they offer you a discount. The discount might be on a price that is too high in the first place.
Remember: it's your doorstep, your decision

Doorstep selling - useful organisations

Telephone Preference service
Enables consumers to opt-out of receiving unsolicited sales and marketing calls.
Tel: 020 72913320
https://www.tpsonline.org.uk

Advice on assistive products

Disabled Living Foundation
Impartial advice and information on large and small equipment.
Tel: 0845 130 9177 (Mon-Fri 10am-1pm)
Textphone: 020 7432 8009
https://www.dlf.org.uk

Disabled Living Centres
Information and advice on assistive products for disabled or older people.
Tel: 0161 834 1044
Textphone: 0161 839 0885
https://www.dlcc.org.uk

Consumer rights

Trading standards
Information for consumers. Find your local trading standards service on the website.
https://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk

Citizens advice bureaux
Confidential and impartial advice on your consumer rights. Details of your nearest bureau can be found on its website.
https://www.adviceguide.org.uk

Energywatch
Complaints about gas and electricity companies.
Tel: 0845 906 0708
Textphone: 0845 758 1401
https://www.energywatch.org.uk

General Consumer Council Northern Ireland
https://www.gccni.org.uk

Welsh Consumer Council
https://www.wales-consumer.org.uk

General help and advice for older people

Age Concern
For a free information sheet on consumer advice and where to get it, call Age Concern Information Line.
Tel: 0800 009 966 (7am-7pm)
https://www.ageconcern.org.uk

Help the Aged
Help the Aged is committed to addressing the issues that matter to older people.
Tel: 020 7278 1114
https://www.helptheaged.org.uk

mrbell

!!!! THERE.(see above) and if the moderator leaves this on here, i will then post some more very handy info so that readers will be able spot these slimy door canvassers for what they are! I am here to help, i am not here in some half hearted attempt to promote my site, i dont need to promote it thanks. If anyone has any questions, please email me.

vikingaero

I too have read mrbells links before they were removed and they were a handy insight into how salesmen operate. The closure techniques were very informative. I think that mr bell is based in Plymouth(?) and that his ads could only be directed to those residents if you construe the information as advertising.

mrbell

Thank you, its nice to be appreciated. I write with years of experience. I have also campaigned extensively in my industry to stamp out bad selling like this. Of course again, i must reiterate, this is posted to help you and as you pointed out, i dont benefit. If the company in question could be put out of business i would be very happy, and no they are not a competitor of the people i work for!!!

:A

as it seems your moderator has let my info remain, heres some more info for you.

(excuse the lack of formatting, its cut and pasted from my site, but this should forewarn and fore-arm everyone if they have the misfortune to let one of these people in their home.

Tips and tricks of the high presure sales people revealed!

Part one: Bad sales tactics exposed!

There is much “hoo-haa” nowadays about ethical selling of home improvements. Mainly national companies are to blame, coupled with sheer greed, to make as many sales as possible, no matter what the cost or consequences. (TEXT HERE OMMITTED AS IT WAS PROMOTING ME, SO I REMOVED IT FOR THIS FORUM)


We invite you to read the following information.

Consumers are more and more aware of their rights and have more and access to information in order to make good decision. So how do you avoid making a bad decision when it comes to choosing a wall coating company to work on your house?

Here’s a few tips to get you started.
A concerned consumer writes:

“I had one wall coating company around (not YOU though, don’t worry!), and they gave me one price, then said later on in their sales pitch, that I could have it cheaper if I agreed to be a show home? What’s the truth in that? It seemed a con to get me to sign up with them.”

EDITORS NOTE: THIS IS THE CLASSIC "CLOSE" THAT 99% OF ALL WALLCOATING SALESMEN USE! ITS OUTDATED AND PATRONISING TO SAY THE LEAST.......

The “show home” close.

ANOTHER LIE! YOUR HOUSE WILL NOT BECOME A SHOW HOME!

Absolutely no truth at all, don’t fall for it. They will give you a massively inflated price, that you couldn’t possibly afford, but as they have built in the desire into their sales pitch, they will offer it to you cheaper, but you have to agree to do something, often signing up on the day they are there, so you don’t “miss out”. Utter rubbish. If you called them back the next day they will still offer it to you for the second lower price as they want your business, mark my words. (as if they would turn away business!) . This is also used in other industries like kitchens, double glazed windows, conservatories, bathrooms etc.

Many will say that you can be a referrer home and they will say that they estimate that 10 properties will be done from just having your home wallcoated and their advert board outside or in the window, :rotfl: and as such, they are prepared to offer you a discount now as they KNOW that they will get more work out of doing your home, and they make you feel that YOU are doing THEM a favour! Once again, this is utter nonsense. This is offered to everyone, they are not doing you a favour, they are trying to hard sell you a textured coating, and is built into their sales pitch. While what they are saying to you may seem natural, it is not, it is very carefully worded to get you to buy from them. Of course it usually conditional on you signing up with them on the day, without any time to think about it.

Also be careful of people showing you a sales video from the 1980’s, which is hopelessly out of date, and was originally produced by a company who have now ceased trading. It is quite laughable to watch just for the hairstyles of the time! This video was also featured in BBC1That’s life with Esther Rantzen in 1989 exposing the same dodgy sales tactics that were recently shown on BBC1 Rogue traders (sept 2006) . The author estimates, that you will see another company appear on a similar show in the next 10 years! (maybe sooner?)

Another tactic, although not as rubbish and a bit more credible, is that they will put an advertising board outside your home when the work is finished, displaying their products and contact details and what their coating system can do to a house to encourage others to buy, and as such, they would be prepared to offer you a generous discount as they will get more sales from that! While this method does work to a certain degree, it’s not much good if you live in a cul de sac, or a country lane!

The “board drop close”.

While it is good practice to display a board outside where you are working, as other trades do like scaffolders, builders, carpenters etc, it should not be offered as some huge incentive to sign on the day before you have thought about it, nor should it be a reason to drop up to a third off the price, as they have given you a higher price to start with. My advice is be wary, and by all means listen to what a wallcoating salesperson has to say, but take some of it with a pinch of salt, and always get 3 prices.

"AAAAAAARGH! Why dont these home improvement companies, just come to my house, show me what they offer, and then give me the price! ONE PRICE. THE PRICE THAT THE PRODUCT COSTS. It's not rocket science is it?"

In most cases, THEY WANT YOUR MONEY AS THEY WANT THEIR COMMISSION. If you pay £10,000 for a large wallcoating job, they often get about another thousand pounds of that in their pocket! Just for being in your home for up to 4 hours! Nice work eh? The finance house pays them this, as it will eventually come out of your pocket in the interest you will have to pay.



There are some smaller family run coating firms who do not do this though, and have very high standards indeed, so I have to say that as I don’t wish to tar everyone with the same brush!

Sounds scary! So what other methods do they use to get my money?

The “commercial close”.

The wall coating salesman …….(or woman, but usually a man, they don’t have feelings you see !))………. gives you a price, you say no, its too high, they then go in with one of the methods above, but they still don’t get you to sign the contract, so they come up with the Commercial close and it goes like this:

“Well, Mrs (name), I can see that you really need a coating DON’T YOU? (that’s a “close”), We agreed that DIDN’T WE? (another close) and you said you like it DIDN’T YOU? (another high pressure “close”) and you said you would be happy to deal with our company DIDN’T YOU? (That’s another close there, getting the prospective customer to say “yes” all the time), Well, I’ll tell you what, I will do you a favour (OH YEAH?!), I have a friend in the commercial department, someone who normally looks after the crews who do hotels and factories. Well one of their teams is free for a couple of weeks while they wait for a contract to come online. Rather than having them stand around, I could get them on this job, which means I could do it for cheaper (THAT’S THE “LAST RESORT “CLOSE”), if you will place an order with us today.

What do you think Mrs customer? (Now the pressure is really on you)

If you still wont sign, they get out the Ultra last resort, which although they will get a lower commission, its better than nothing at all.

They continue with “OK, well I can see you really want it (blah blah blah, all the closes come back again, they are trying to get you to say YES all the time), what would it take to get your business with me today?

This is about the time that your resolve should be the strongest and don’t give in, show them the door. If they refuse to leave, call the police. The editor of this site has had reports from consumers to say that is what they had to do. Exterior wall coatings are a great product and they should not be sold in the above way. If someone doesn’t want it, why try and convince them? Greed!

The reverse close and the cash back close

Can take many forms. A typical one is a cheeky salesmen who upon being told absolutely no way, can you leave, they will try and stay by telling you “what you wont get”. So “Well, I can see there’s nothing more for me to do, but while I am here, let me just run through what you wont get”

Also the cashback close on finance blinds you with numbers, they don’t tell you the APR or total value of finance, and use very confusing terminology and forms. All you can hear is “£20 a week, which is nothing is it?”. Also when selling you finance, they tempt you with an offer of them giving you money back if you place an order on their “home improvement plan”

What this actually is, is them bumping up the value of the finance product they are selling you. So a 10 grand loan becomes a 12 grand loan, and you get 2 grand back. Don’t worry, the cash you get, you will repay over a large number of years, costing you a small fortune in the end. Don’t be greedy yourself. If you cant afford it, don’t buy it.
A list of closes to listen for when a wallcoating salesman comes to your home

(A CLOSE (as in “close a door”), is specially worded language that gets you to agree with what they say, and ultimately, to close the deal.)

• So you like it?

• Do you agree?

• That's right isn’t it?

• You can see that can’t you?

• You would daft not to agree with that wouldn’t you?

• So if we could give you the cashback to spend on what you like, you would be happy to go ahead today is that right?

• Looks good doesn’t it?

• Sounds great I am sure you agree, yes?

• Isn’t this the best finance package you have ever seen?

• So, £30,000 represents terrific value for money for painting your tiny bungalow doesn’t it? (!)

• Do you want it at the best price?

• What colour do you want?

• When do you want it done?

• Do you want to go ahead on that basis?

• (CASHBACK FINANCE): So you would have love to get a cheque for £2,000 from us wouldn’t you? (ALSO REVERSE CLOSE)

• (SAVING A DEAD DEAL); “So if I can come back in 6 months time, and offer it to you at the lowest price we said, would you be happy to go ahead?” This is done as you have told them to leave and they start to pack up and go.

Their sales “leads” methods

While our company, and many others, have people who are interested in getting a quote, approach us for a price direct instead of being canvassed or prompted to do so, many, if not most, exterior wallcoating companies, go for the direct approach.

While, once again, there are some very legitimate and ethical companies who do find prospective customers via telesales or leaflet drops and treat prospective customers with courtesy and respect, there are some real sharks out there.

Many door canvassers are recruited either at vaguely worded presentations, “off the street” or through newspaper job ads promising untold earnings for the right people, a promise rarely kept. As with many direct sales companies, there is a very high turnover of staff. They often prey on older, lone women and ritually target retirement areas and seaside resorts, promising a free survey of their home, or a free damp test. Don’t be fooled. If you think you have damp and you are a senior citizen, contact your local council who may be able to help you. Do NOT let these people into your home, they are trying to sell you products that you probably don’t need.

Many of these door canvassers will introduce themselves to the homeowner out of the blue as the marketing manager! HIGHLY UNLIKELY! They are NOT the marketing manager, they are a door canvasser and they are paid on the amount of "leads" they pass to their manager!
deposits.

Some people are wary of deposits. There is nothing wrong with paying a deposit to the right people. Many small businesses rely on these funds for cashflow, especially on big jobs. From the point of view of the reputable contractor, it also proves your commitment to getting the job done too; after all, when you get building work done, there are two parties involved, YOU and the CONTRACTOR!

There are Customers from hell also you know! While thankfully this is extremely rare, its just TRUST though. You have to trust the contractor to part with your money! You are letting them loose on the outisde of your house, your most expensive asset!

After all when someone wins a record deal or a book deal, they get a pay advance dont they? Only pay a deposit in a CHEQUE and NOT cash! Always sign an agreement either at the same time or before you hand over a deposit.

If the person asks you to make the cheque to someones name instead of a trading name or company name (eg. Mr john smith instead of XYZ ltd. or XYZ coatings, etc.), then you could be forgiven for being a little cautious, it may be quite legitimate, or it may be that they are a sole trader (!) and you are happy to deal with a sole trader, after all there are good ones out there.

However there is still the remote possibility that they are either stealing from the company they work for, or its simply a one man band you are dealing with, but trying to pass themselves off as a huge company. A deposit usually pays for the salesman's commission (after all they are doing a job and there are some great honest and ethical salespeople in the industry, only a few are cowboys), and for the purchase of the coating materials required to do the spray coating on your house.

Sometimes though this is not the case and there are some wall coatings surveyors and sales people who do actually recieve a modest wage and dont take commission as such, but they probably run the company anyway! I digress a little...........

You would be advised not to pay more than 30% of the contract value in a deposit, and NEVER pay the balance until the work is completed and you are happy.

Consumer credit licences.

A consumer credit licence is issued by the office of fair trading. Any company can get one, even recently incorporated ones, with zero share capital, and in most cases it is easier to obtain a CCL than it is to get a credit card! Possession of a consumer credit licence (CCL) does NOT add much credibility to a wallcoating company or salesman, it just means they have the correct paperwork to sell finance and financial products to you!

Saying that, theres nothing wrong with a home improvements company having a Consumer credit licence of course, just dont be blinded by it, it just means that they exist and they are allowed by law to sell you financial products!

Our advice to you:

Look on the internet or talk to friends who have already had a wallcoating done on their house. Choose 3 companies and get quotes from all of them, don’t sign up on the day, unless you are 100% confident and happy to do so, dont be pressured!

Also, get a written quote from each one, and then decide on which company will get the job to apply an exterior wallcoating on your home, in your time, not theirs!. Feel free to call any of these companies back and ask them questions, but decide when you are ready.

Then call them, tell them with either “yes please, we would like you to do the work” or “no thank you”, and get the winning company back to do the paperwork, and collect a deposit if applicable.

It is not our intention to confuse customers with too much information, nor do we infer that all wallcoating companies are bad, far from it, there are some great companies out there, even ones not connected with us in any way, with great work teams who do a good job, but the industry has made itself a bad reputation and we feel it is (sort of) our duty at NPA, for the continued future and good name of the industry, to let consumers know the pitfalls.

Remember, it’s your money, its your decision.

It’s that easy!

The editor of this website and of this article writes with 22 years experience in the industry. He has seen and done it all. He has heard the rubbish spouted by some exterior wall painting companies to get you to part with your money. He has seen the corners that the cowboys cut. By no means do we say that you shouldn’t have a wallcoating, in fact we encourage it obviously, but we want all consumers of these services to be happy and not be ripped off by con men. Good luck in your search for a quality home improvement. Upon visiting this site, you have made the first step in the right direction!

PASTED ENTIRELY FROM MY OWN WEBSITE.

mrbell

Hope The Above Helps, Please Feel To Contact Me For More Informaiton

vicparker

It won't be protectacoat -they are a very reputable company ! I think you must be confusing them with many building companies who will quite happily stick render on your property after hacking your brick work to bits so the render will stick and they won't guarantee it - when it rains the render simply acts as a big sponge and you're in bigger trouble! Same with pebbledash!
Where as protectacoat actually gets rid of the damp problem - it draws it out - it is the only covering that will actually seal and allow your house to breathe - insulate your property and make it look a hell of a lot better!

Forget paint, render, pebble dash etc -
I've had protectacoat on my house and I'm a very happy customer - it solved my renovation problems and added value to my home!

If you do want the best then you do have to pay for it - your house is probably the most expensive item you will buy! Look after it!

AND do not get protectacoat confused with those cowboys out there!
I have to admit before I was educated I was skeptical!

I'm a VERY happy customer!