New Comps Board Guidelines Discussion

thingamaBob

For the record, my preferences from One-Eye's list would be 2a, 3a, 4b.
Having said that, I feel any combination of 4 would be OK, i.e 4a, or 4b or both.
I feel that 2b is lunacy and 3b almost as bad.
I think that the Dailies & Weeklies should be treated in the same way and in the "a" version, most particularly because their short duration periods would create too many posts in the "b" version. That would make the main board untidy and confusing and make a lot of unnecessary work for BG's in moving them to GO and, certainly, 2b will result in many people missing daily comps and, as has already been mentioned, will probably result in comps being "lost" altogether.
With monthlies lasting that much longer, they would not have such a bad effect on the board and I did state, as long as 2 years ago, that I thought that all monthlies should be treated as one-off comps on the main board.
It is, perhaps, interesting to note that the Regs board originally only had "stickies" for the Dailies & Weeklies and not for the Monthlies. It was only later when more & more monthly comps were being posted on the regs board, that ppd created the the monthlies sticky.

One-Eye

Great responses folks - thanks. I think it's good that people are stating their preferred options but also stating other options they could live with. In this respect I would say:-

2b, any, any – HATE – absolutely last choice which would lead to chaos.
2a, 3a, 4a – Can live with, (but hard to stop 3b and 4b being done)
2a, 3a, 3b, 4a, 4b – Can live with (but lacks consistency and upsets some when ‘b’ and ‘a’ types switch)
2a, 3a, 4b – Can live with (some 3b’s would probably still creep in, but probably not a big problem)
2a, 3a, 3b, 4b – Like (it removes the inconsistency for monthlies, but need to ensure they all get posted)
2a, 3b, 4b – Preferred (removes all inconsistency, but more risk of some not being posted)

Apologies to PCL (#1555) for not mentioning postal/text/phone comps. Their sticky is on the main board and I also assumed they would stay as they are. I have changed the wording of Item 1 to include them.

Reason I suggested 2a, 3a, 3b, 4b as a first stage towards 2a, 3b, 4b is just to make implementation easier – ie. Leave the weeklies alone until the monthlies have settled.

Glad

Hi all
first just to say I've got the cold from hell (if I was a man it would obviously be serious flu that needed a weekend in bed )

I want more than anything for you to have a comps board that suits most people and means everyone gets a fair chance to enter any comp they can/want and way back when I was reading all the ideas and coming up with some thoughts etc
then it all got a bit heated, Andrea was asked to intervene and I've had to step back and leave it to her

I have no idea how many pm's and who from she has received but there does seem to be many more 'mains board only' compers than people who also use the regs board, mains compers suddenly realised they were missing a large number of comps whereas people who do use regs are generally happy with it, this might mean that the number of pm's to Andrea could be heavily biased toward the way she has now set things up (just due to percentages of people giving an opinion to her)

I think the ideas and discussions being put forward are great, below I've quoted an idea I originally put forward in Andrea's first thread, I think it's generally what people here are now suggesting and if someone wants to read it again and see how it fits in with one-eye, mamzie's etc ideas please do

if none of the above makes sense blame the cold my head feels like it's full of glue

Glad wrote: »

a lot of people are still saying they'd like all comps on the main board with a link to the regs board, but there wouldn't be a regs board if that were the case, the stickies would have to be on the main board too and all comps (whatever the title format) would all be on one board
a few are saying they would like a regs board for some comps as comping by end date may mean missing regular entry into a comp

could this be a compromise (bear with me it's only an idea and could be tweaked to suit most people)

main board
all usual single entry comps
all monthly comps that can be posted with an end date, new thread to be posted each month

regulars board
all the ongoing monthlies (no end date), the type where you need to register or sign up for an email and get entered into a monthly draw

daily comps - reasons for suggesting this - as well as an answer being posted daily, some people like to chat on them which would be fine on the regs board, most of them aren't too long running and as the regs board will be a lot less busy most of these could then be found each day on the first page, searching wise, as long as people remember to put a link on the dailies thread for bhg new dailies can be found from there, and then people can use the same method they use now to get back to them each day (as I said most of them will be on the first page anyway) It would mean letting everyone know the new way (sticky on main board for a while, update to comp guide and leaving redirect for any moved from main to regs, which are searchable as BGH suggested earlier) but if it worked and peole know how to find them no one should miss out on any entries


that just leaves the weeklies either they could be posted on the main board each week, even if a comp isn't posted asap it has a week to get posted, or they could go in regs on the same basis as the dailies, but as most people seem to favour the main board they could go there posted each week and see how it goes

if the weeklies were in the main board it would be a lot of work for the OP of the weeklies sticky to update the link each week but I don't think that sticky would be needed as people would be entering from the main by whatever search method they use (although it would be useful to have a list in case some of the more obscure comps got missed one week)
same for the monthlies posted on the main board

the stickies could then stay as they are, on the regs board, but as monthlies and possibly weeklies would be posted as a seperate comp each month/week on the main board most people would catch them even if a link hasn't been put on the relevant sticky
so would only really need a dailies sticky and a sticky for the monthly draw type comps, meaning the current long monthly sticky would be much neater

Glad

PS
this has taken an hour or so to compose so sorry if I've missed anything posted in between

I know this won't suit everyone but whatever changes are made that will be the case, it's just that after reading all the comments this might suit most people most of the time

big thanks to a couple of compers who read it through for me and added a few ideas :T

beffffff

Glad I've seen you post that 3 or 4 times now and I still think it is a good suggestion. And agree that it seems in line with what is being suggested again today. Like I'm absolutely certain I've said on at least one of the times you've posted it, it's not perfect for me but I'm sure I can easily adjust my way of comping and make it work.

But there must be a reason MSEAndrea rejected this when you suggested it to her in the past?

Also agree there seem to be more people who just use main board than who use both. And, as I'm far more likely to e-mail a complaint than a message to say how happy I am, I agree that the people moaning to MSEAndrea would probably have been biased towards complaints from main board only compers as they were the ones that felt they were missing out. So you make perfect sense even if you're full of cold

Hope you feel better soon, xx

thingamaBob

Glad,
My personal view has always been along the lines you suggest, with the Weeklies being treated the same as the Dailies. This would entail keeping the daily/weekly regular stickies much as they are now but having a much reduced regular monthly sticky as most of these would be on the main board.

However this is markedly different from One-Eyes proposal's as they are based on ALL comps being posted on the main board and just deciding whether each regular Daily/weekly/monthly comp should be a new post each Day/week/month or in one thread with Daily/weekly/monthly updates.

I think (but could be wrong) that Mamzie's proposals sit somewhere between yours and One-Eyes but get the impression that these were not necessarily her preferences but just a better alternative to Andrea's.

I was supporting One-Eye's idea as an amendment to MSE Andrea's answer as I thought Andrea's decision would be bring chaos but overall, I prefer your suggestion.

Of course the biggest problem is still that there is only a handful of us talking about this and a wider discussion would inevitably erupt as before.

Mamzie

Glad, I'm sorry, but I don't think your original compromise would work now. I like the regs board, but I get the very strong feeling that most compers want as much as possible on main board.

thingamaBob wrote: »

Glad,
My personal view has always been along the lines you suggest, with the Weeklies being treated the same as the Dailies. This would entail keeping the daily/weekly regular stickies much as they are now but having a much reduced regular monthly sticky as most of these would be on the main board.

However this is markedly different from One-Eyes proposal's as they are based on ALL comps being posted on the main board and just deciding whether each regular Daily/weekly/monthly comp should be a new post each Day/week/month or in one thread with Daily/weekly/monthly updates.

I think (but could be wrong) that Mamzie's proposals sit somewhere between yours and One-Eyes but get the impression that these were not necessarily her preferences but just a better alternative to Andrea's.

I was supporting One-Eye's idea as an amendment to MSE Andrea's answer as I thought Andrea's decision would be bring chaos but overall, I prefer your suggestion.

Of course the biggest problem is still that there is only a handful of us talking about this and a wider discussion would inevitably erupt as before.

I found that MSE Andreas guidelines just seemed to be getting more and more confusing from a compers veiwpoint. So I was trying to include all the unwritten rules, that long term compers have to learn for this board, but without them all being written down anywhere. But which have often kept our beloved board running smoothly. So I thought I would bite the bullet and try to write them all down in one place for once. Unfortunately, there is only so much compromise that can be done to please everyone, so at some stage, someone has to say enough, these are the Guidelines, iyswim, but they do have to be workable guidelines, which at the moment I honestly don't feel MSE Andreas are. I guess that you could even say that if you followed her guidelines fully, even the postal sticky would have to be all posted seperately as well

My personal preference is for reg comps which are dailys and weeklys to have a thread for each comp which lasts for the life of the comp. The reason I suggested that common sense may be a better way to go in regard to the monthlys, was that I can understand a single thread for a monthly which has the same prize repeating every month, but when its a different prize each month, then it feels like a different comp to me, even if the website uses the same url to host the comp. I would hate to lose the stickys linking us to d/w/m comps, as they are very useful. And with the extra info starting to get collated onto the dailys thread - Fb comps, purchase required comps, etc that is a fantastic aid to comping

I am hoping that ongoing comps with no end date would still use the regs board I guess, but appreciate that to have a guessedenddate, may be a viable alternative so that they can be on the main forum. I just tried to pull together what I felt would be a workable compromise that we could all live with and that would allow the forum to run efficiently

However I would hate to see us just lose a sub forum for no reason, as its an ideal place for the stickys to live, without taking up the front page of main. I think that the regs board could change into more of a Compers chat corner and sticky threads home. That way maybe we could finally get a sticky for FB, Twitter comps as well... It could be a place for people to go to and ask Qs, chat about tricks they have learned to speed up comping, will I ever win, etc, without bumping threads, and starting threads in the main comps forum, which means their thread gets merged willy nilly into this huge Comps Discussion thread.

This thread is at nearly 1600 posts long, and unless you visit it freq you do lose track of any issues being discussed on it. I find the Inn feels like an enormous thread as well. However, we had a sub forum us compers can chat in available, then we may find that we discovered people exchanging information much easier.

Mamzie

I'll repost the proposed guidelines here, to save people searching back to read them. (with thanks to One Eye as I have copied some of their suggested wording as it was much easier to understand than my original) I'll also repost One Eyes, very handy, a/b version at the bottom, as it shows very clearly what the alternatives could be.

These were in response to the guidelines that MSE Andrea gave us yesterday

MSE Andrea

........ What I can say is please post them as individual threads for each day/week/month noting in the title which day etc it is - that way when you discuss them you all know you're discussing the same one, plus when you click thanks you only need to look at the first post to know you've entered it, rather than wade through the thread to find the new post for the new day's comp? (I think I'm understanding that correctly?) ...................................

================================================== ==============

Possible Comping Board Guidelines

1) Post all single/limited entry comps, Reg comps, one off comps with an End Date in the Main Board. NB postal/text/phone competitions have their own section. Please search beforehand to ensure it has not already been posted by someone else. (Please make sure a link plus comp info is posted at end of relevant sticky thread in Regs Sub-Board if needed).

2) Post Daily reg Comps in a single thread per comp - - State “Daily prize/entry” in the thread title. New posts can be added to the thread for new questions/answers/links. Post a link to the thread at the end of the daily sticky.

3) Post Weekly comps in a single thread per comp - State “Weekly prize/entry” in the thread title. New posts can be added to the thread for new questions/answers/links. Post a link to the thread at the end of the weekly sticky.

4) Post Monthly Reg Comps in a long thread for each comp or as individual comp threads every month. State “Monthly prize/entry” in the thread title. New posts can be added to the thread for new questions/answers/links. Post a link to the thread at the end of the monthly sticky. Use your common sense with posting and ask on discussion thread if advice is needed.

5) Post all comps using the Expiry Date Format eg. E: 01/01 Win.... If unsure of end date, then use your best estimate and put guessedenddate anywhere in the thread.

6) Post Ongoing comps with no End Date in the Reg Sub Forum - State “Daily/Weekly/Monthly prize/entry” in the thread title. New posts can be added to the thread for new questions/answers/links. Post a link to the thread at the end of the correct sticky.

7) Please note that only Threads linking to a Competition may be posted on the Main Comps Forum. There are Sub Forums to the Main Comps Board at the top, where you can post a thread in when you win a prize, etc.

8) Do not c&p entire articles from sites due to copyright issues.

9a) Posting on Comps threads is discouraged unless communicating information to fellow compers, as this causes threads to be bumped, and can affect the way that people view the threads to enter. Please ask any comping questions on the Comps Discussion thread. Please use the Compers Inn for chatting.
or
9b) Please use the Compers Chat Sub Forum to ask all Questions, chat, etc in. Posting on Comps threads is discouraged unless communicating information to fellow compers, as this causes threads to be bumped, and can affect the way that people view the threads to enter. (Possible if Regs Forum allowed Comper Chat)

10) Please use suggested Title Tags (FB/effort etc. - see below), to help members decide which comps to enter and for searching the Comps Forum.

11) Please note that most Magazines have regular poster, as these involve people commiting to buy the magazine regularly and to solve each issues puzzles. Puzzler/Tab magazines are posted in one thread due to answers crossing over different issues. Also most ITV.com comps are posted by Comping Cat to avoid dupes on the board.

12) Remember to be polite and helpful to fellow posters.

Suggested Title Tags, to help people Enter Comps

a) Please mention Kids, age guidance, photos/purchase required, effort, email, text, postal, phone, newsletter sign up, etc in title if entry requires these.

b) Please mention FB, Twitter, Blog if the comp is hosted on these sites.

c) Please remember to add Daily, Weekly or Monthly when posting a comp with multiple prizes or entries. These also need to be linked with the relevant Sticky


==============================================

One-Eye wrote: »

Possible Posting Guidelines (based on the work started by Mamzie)


1) Post ALL comps on the main board. Please search beforehand to ensure it has not already been posted by someone else. Note that postal/text/phone competitions have their own section.

2a) Post a daily regular comp in a single thread for the duration of the promotion (or for a maximum of ** days if the promotion lasts longer). State “Daily” in the thread title. New posts can be added to the thread for new questions/answers/links. Post a link to the thread at the end of the daily sticky.
OR
2b) Post the comp as an individual comp with an end date for that day only. A new thread will be required the following day, and no link in stickies is required.

3a) Post a weekly regular comp in a single thread for the duration of the promotion (or for a maximum of 52 weeks if the promotion lasts longer). State “Weekly” in the thread title. New posts can be added to the thread for new questions/answers/links. Post a link to the thread at the end of the weekly sticky.
OR
3b) Post the comp as an individual comp with an end date for that week only. A new thread will be required the following week, and no link in stickies is required.

4a) Post a monthly regular comp in a single thread for the duration of the promotion (or for a maximum of 12 months if the promotion lasts longer). State “Monthly” in the thread title. New posts can be added to the thread for new questions/answers/links. Post a link to the thread at the end of the monthly sticky.
OR
4b) Post the comp as an individual comp with an end date for that month only. A new thread will be required the following month, and no link in stickies is required.

beffffff

Mamzie wrote: »

Glad, I'm sorry, but I don't think your original compromise would work now. I like the regs board, but I get the very strong feeling that most compers want as much as possible on main board.

Well before we totally dismiss ongoing regulars living on regulars and anything with an end date going on main can we run a poll.

Maybe just do you think ongoing regulars with no end date should go on the regulars board or the main board?
Vote options of Regulars OR Main
(maybe provide an example so people know what you're talking about)

Doesn't have to be an MSE poll if they can only be done by the likes of Andreas I'm sure there must be free ones on external sites?
Like Glad said, representation on here may be disproportional because you're more likely to moan than say all's well so I think we should use polls to decide so everyones opinion gets counted otherwise we'll end up back here in another month or two with other people moaning that how they comp has been ignored when the rules have been written.

(sorry for bolding that bit but I wanted it to be highly visible because this post may be too long for most. And I know we had polls before but they weren't well though through and were closed early)

Mamzie wrote: »

My personal preference is for reg comps which are dailys and weeklys to have a thread for each comp which lasts for the life of the comp. The reason I suggested that common sense may be a better way to go in regard to the monthlys, was that I can understand a single thread for a monthly which has the same prize repeating every month, but when its a different prize each month, then it feels like a different comp to me, even if the website uses the same url to host the comp. I would hate to lose the stickys linking us to d/w/m comps, as they are very useful. And with the extra info starting to get collated onto the dailys thread - Fb comps, purchase required comps, etc that is a fantastic aid to comping

OK well I understand that.

I think another poll. Maybe one where you can click more than one option?
Question could be: "What is a regular?" and possible answers could be similar to the original poll (but without the duplication and with one that says "only comps with the same url and same prize each d/w/m". I've probably a few other options to tidy up the original questions but I'm going out so will give them tomorrow.

Maybe make it clear that any future rules will be based on both majority and best fit from the poll. Or that if a few results are equally popular and totally different a second poll may be needed with just the popular answers.

I would like clear rules to avoid all the hassle. I'm not the only one who thinks the one I posted that caused upset this week was a regular!
If the poll is set up well enough we should be able to get clear rules out of it. If not then people need to be more relaxed about it when they disagree with how a comp is posted!

I get that you'll never catch EVERY comp in any set of rules. But we should be able to catch MOST



I also think there should be one more poll based on how we post what and if ongoing threads are acceptable to people.
[STRIKE]Based on the amilucky post perhaps?
eg
2a, 3a, 4a
2a, 3a, 4b
2a, 3b, 4b
etc. including every combo.
Again maybe a multiple choice poll.
People need to be made aware that if an option where it isn't clear is most favoured (eg it has 3a, 3b and/or 4a, 4b in it) then they need to bite their tongue when they disagree with how a comp is posted!
And maybe give a few examples of how ongoing comps can work well for everyone (eg the TaB and Puzzler ones)[/STRIKE]


EDIT: I actually think 3 polls may be clearer than one here and give results that are easier to use 1st time
1) how should dailies be posted? Vote options of: One thread to be updated as and when OR one post each day?
2) and 3) how should weeklies and then how should monthlies be posted (options as above).
May be simpler to understand that way?



So to summarise
I'm suggesting [STRIKE]3[/STRIKE] 5 polls
1) Where should ongoing regulars get posted
2) What is a regular
3) How do we post [STRIKE]regulars[/STRIKE] dailies
4) How do we post weeklies
5) How do we post monthlies

I know that may be a lot but then everything really is based on majority opinion rather than guessed opinion

I think they should be fully thought through (maybe put the Q's on here for proof reading before they go live) and run for at least a week.

And then I think results should be embedded in any rules so we can just refer people back to them if/when they query,

grannybiker

:A Andrea, your PM to me was fine too. Succint & friendly. So glad your loved ones are safe. Was transfixed by the horror of yesterday that sadly continues... I often say that "Worse things will have happened in the world today" to myself & others when things are sent to try us... Thoughts are with anyone affected, directly or otherwise XXX
Anyhow, to the point in hand....
I'd not posted here this time as
a) I've said it all before!
b) it seemed to be confused with so many different ideas, but then c) reliant on Andrea's decision. My PM stated...
(Will keep it short as guess you've had a few PMs!)
While I'm delighted that more comps can be on the main boards...
1) Please can we keep the stickies (For end date users & those who get "Behind".)
2) Please can we keep onging threads that can be updated with new answers / codes each day / week. This will make the stickies manageable. there are numerous examples of this working efficiently. Happy for monthlies to be separate each month.
Thanks for reading.
GBX

I hadn't entered the FB / Twitter / Blog debate and I'm happy to label any I find & post. My only point that I can think of is that some aren't vital, some rely on more than 1, e.g. The Greedy Gourmet. Could be some confusion if same comp needed to be on 4 different (Sub) boards. Would they all be linked to each other to avoid duping?
The other point has already been raised . If folk get it wrong, (Not everyone reads every long and often contradictory posts in here and many find it hard to follow exactly what's supposed to be happening, so can get it wrong even if they're trying hard to follow the rules . ) they shouldn't be made to feel "Got at." Sadly all too easy in a forum when it's hard to tell the tone, even if the poster wasn't being grumpy ! (Wondering why I can't seem to remove the italice option.. ? :rotfl:!)
Hope everyone has a great weekend :beer:
GBX

Mamzie

beffffff wrote: »

Well before we totally dismiss ongoing regulars living on regulars and anything with an end date going on main can we run a poll.

..................(sorry my edit to make it shorter).............

So to summarise
I'm suggesting [STRIKE]3[/STRIKE] 5 polls
1) Where should ongoing regulars get posted
2) What is a regular
3) How do we post [STRIKE]regulars[/STRIKE] dailies
4) How do we post weeklies
5) How do we post monthlies

I know that may be a lot but then everything really is based on majority opinion rather than guessed opinion

I think they should be fully thought through (maybe put the Q's on here for proof reading before they go live) and run for at least a week.

And then I think results should be embedded in any rules so we can just refer people back to them if/when they query,

I think that the previous polls, made it very clear that if there was an end date, then people wanted the comp on the main board.

I think that its a really good idea to run a few extra polls to ensure that people are clear on the way that the board would run in future. No offence, but I don't think we really need to get bogged down in the define a reg debate again, as that was more to help decide which actual boards comps were posted on, and now we all know that they are posted mostly on main, unless there is no end date.

I can understand asking for polls re the ongoing comps, and how to post monthlys - but I thought people were pretty much settled on how to post dailys and weeklys, already.

beffffff wrote: »

Oh and I'd be OK with a board for twitter comps. It would probably help me.

But do you mean one that works like the regular stickies? Or one like the postals? I think these comps move so fast ot should be one like postals.

Sorry if that's already been said and I've missed it

And agree with thingamaBob about the Cosy Corner. It's a good idea but how do we make people aware of it? If people don't know where regulars is and it's "hidden" away over there it may not get much use?

What has always amazed me is that plenty of people find their way to IWIW - My honest opinion is that the threads were locked for so long, and the way we actively discourage chatting on threads, actually discouraged people from using Regs. IWIW, proves that a sub forum will work if its interesting enough to encourage compers to visit, and hopefully, if we can have different threads in Compers Corner/Ongoing Comps board then people would start to use it much more.

I would also be very inclined that before any guidelines were posted as law - that they were proofed by the BGs, and posted at the start of a thread, in case we had all missed something that was glaringly obvious to someone, and to encourage all of us compers to take ownership of them.