Apoca parking fine Luton Airport info needed please

Gryphon005

I too, have received a fake PCN from Apcoa for stopping in a "no waiting" area at Luton Airport. I have no intention of paying this invoice (as per the advice given in this thread and other similar ones), but how would I stand if I were to now enter the pick-up/drop-off zone at Luton with the same vehicle?
Would the ANPR system recognise my vehicle as belonging to someone having unpaid "fines" to pay and demand payment of £81.00 (or maybe even more....) before it will open the barrier, or must Apcoa treat each visit as an entirely separate event and charge me just £1.00 to let my vehicle out on this occasion?
Or, must I forever remain an Apcoa 'parking outlaw' and beware of parking in ANY of Apcoa's parking outlets, at least until I change my vehicle?
(Apologies if this question has been posted in another thread, but I haven't been able to find it so far.......)

trisontana

No need to worry. They don't have a proper "ANPR" system (i.e. one directly connected to the DVLA database) all they have is a CCTV system whereby somebody has to manually read off the number plate, and then make an application to the DVLA for the RK's details. So don't worry, you will be OK.

Gryphon005

Thanks trisontana, that's reassuring, but it would seem that the PPCs are missing a rather obvious trick, unless there's some subtle legal point preventing them from keeping a register of "wanted" registration numbers.

Coupon-mad

Gryphon005 wrote: »

Thanks trisontana, that's reassuring, but it would seem that the PPCs are missing a rather obvious trick, unless there's some subtle legal point preventing them from keeping a register of "wanted" registration numbers.

And what would they do with that? Most PPCs do not clamp so all they could do is put another fake PCN on the vehicle for you to ignore.

And how would they know the owner had not changed in the meantime anyway? It's only the driver they can allege any contract with - and they do not know who was driving. Even in cases where they do know because daft or unsuspecting, credulous people have told them in what they actually think is an 'appeal'(as if!), PPC bogus PCNs are still unenforceable rubbish.

Stop panicking. PPCs are scammers and you can safely park in APCOA car parks again and collect more fake tickets. Some people here have collected DOZENS, deliberately, to cost the scumbag PPCs some money. I have had only one bogus PCN, from Euro Car Parks, but happily still park there and over stay sometimes, every week. The car park goons who issue the fake PCNs have no clue about previous fake PCNs issued and who gives a stuff anyway...

I hate PPCs they are parasites on real businesses, ripping off the unwary public left, right and centre. PPC owner fat-cats should be jailed for their deception and left to rot.

RENEGADE_2

I am on APCOA's band waggon. They use Roxburghe and Graham White (two for the price of one - they are the same). At present, their letters get sent back to them marked "REFUSED" so they pay for the pleasure of this game they will not win. Their target is not even opening their mail now, if they are so stupid not to see that, whose fault is it? How do you expect your target to send you money when he can't even see your demand because he rejects it?

Kite2010

Gryphon005 wrote: »

Thanks trisontana, that's reassuring, but it would seem that the PPCs are missing a rather obvious trick, unless there's some subtle legal point preventing them from keeping a register of "wanted" registration numbers.

One massive massive flaw in that theory, what if the vehicle has more than 1 driver, the "contract" is with the driver not the registered keeper.

Gordo82

esmerobbo wrote: »

I would write to Lombard agreeing with them that "FINES" are a legitimate charge that they can make on your behalf. However a breach of contract is a civil matter and they have no authority to pay it.

I would also be asking them why they passed your details to APCOA which has no authority to ask! Without asking you first.

As they have passed on your details to APCOA then they should contact you.

Of course APCOA will send the notice to hire/lease companies as they know sometimes they will just pay and charge the customer.

Please can someone advise of what I should write in the letter to Lombard to stop them from paying this on my behalf (and charge me for the privilege) and make sure that they forward all future correspondence from Apcoa to me instead so that I can bin it?

How should I phrase the letter and what justification should I give?

Coupon-mad

Gordo82 wrote: »

Please can someone advise of what I should write in the letter to Lombard to stop them from paying this on my behalf (and charge me for the privilege) and make sure that they forward all future correspondence from Apcoa to me instead so that I can bin it?

How should I phrase the letter and what justification should I give?

Here you go, this is the approach to take (pepipoo link below shows perfect responses from a clued-up motorist IMHO):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=62531&st=0&p=599740&#entry599740

You need to understand the difference between a fine and this fake PCN (which is only an allegation of breach of contract against YOU personally, not the car nor its owner nor its registered keeper). Explain to the hire company that this is not a fine, so it's clear that their t&cs simply do not allow them to give your details to a private company, let alone think about paying the scammers!

Hire t&cs seem to often include reference to the hirer being responsible for paying a 'fine/penalty' for a 'parking or traffic offence' which of course does NOT give them authority to pay a Parking Charge Notice (which isn't a fine, nor a penalty, nor an offence).

I always say in these cases, include with your first letter a copy of this Fleet News article, it backs up what you are saying. Word your letter in a surprised tone, rather than complaining at first - say that you think they have clearly made a mistake, you are sure that a big company like Lombard surely knows the difference between a real fine and a fake one dressed up to look like a PCN, etc:

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009/5/28/...ts-urged/30698/

Oh yes, and end your letter saying categorically that you hereby withdraw any authority for Lombard to debit your credit/debit card, whether for an admin fee for 'handling' this bogus PCN or indeed if they make the mistake of taking it seriously and paying it - tell them that if they do then they have fallen for a con that you will not reimburse them for.

Copy in your credit/debit card company to your letter - highlighting the relevant areas - or email them with a brief outline and tell them not to make any payments requested by Lombard as your authority for that company to take payments has now been withdrawn because the business for that car hire arrangement is concluded. If it's not done in time and a payment is taken for this matter, insist that the card company proceed with a 'chargeback' if it's a VISA debit card, or any credit card (see Martin's article on this site on chargebacks).

HTH - make sure you call it a 'fake PCN' and/or 'bogus PCN' in your letter - Lombard need to learn what this is! Do post back here with whatever reply you get!

martin5797

hi
I have a parking fine from Apcoa parking for stoping on a bus lane at luton airport,I was driving a hired car at the time ,also hired from luton airport.
Apcoa has issued the fine to Alamo (eurocar group)who have sent me a bill for 32.40 which they are taken out of my credit card,they have my details from when i hired the car,and also sent on the parking enforcement notice.
From reading the links and threads on your site I know I should ignore the Apcoa fine ,I was wondering what to do with the addmin fee from Eurocar,any advice would be helpful
many thanks

Coupon-mad

For a start, it's important that you understand that you do NOT have a fine nor a parking ticket there. It's important because you are going to have to clearly explain this to Eurocar.

Secondly, you must check the EXACT wording of the hire t&cs, I have not seen one in a long time that does actually allow them to take an admin fee for handling a breach of contract begging letter. Most hire t&cs talk about 'fines & penalties' which this is NOT. They have no liability for this matter and it's actually none of their business, they should have binned the letter.

Can you show us the exact wording of those t&cs about 'fines'?

In the meantime I would contact your card issuer and get that 'admin fee' payment put into dispute, tell them that the hire company had no right to take it and you will be complaining and disputing it. Make it clear that your previous authorisation for that company to make debits on your card is now revoked as the business is completed. You may like to mention that you suspect that the company might try to take further monies shortly but any further amount is denied and disputed, so you need the card company to know this and return any request for payment, unpaid. This should then stop the company from panicking and paying the fake PCN when they get another threatogram.

That done, you must complain and tell the hire company that this matter is nothing to do with them and is in fact a scam. You may have to explain why - especially if it's not a British based company as they may have assumed 'if it looks like a British PCN, it must be a PCN'.

Do not beat about the bush and make sure you reply in writing and keep a copy of your correspondence. This is a fake PCN which is a spurious amount which is very probably NOT covered by their t&cs and for which they have zero liability in law, therefore it was never their business to charge an admin fee for receiving it - let alone think anyone needs to pay it!

This pepipoo thread is the one for you to read:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=62531

Copy the letters the poster used, just change anything not relevant and quote their own hire t&cs at the hire firm, just like that poster, user1EOUf, did. Your case is a little different as it's 'only' the admin fee at the moment, luckily they haven't yet gone the whole hog and paid the 'parking charge'.

Do not take their excuses for an answer, this is ONLY a private allegation against a driver (you). Do not let the hire co tell you what they 'think' their hire t&cs cover (any reference to fines, penalties, offences, authorities and Traffic Law can ONLY relate to proper PCNs from Local Authorities or the Police).

To convince the hire company, I would also send them this Fleet News link (or print it out if writing snail mail) and maybe conclude by saying you are somewhat surprised that a large company such as them, would fall for this well-known scam and you are sure they will realise their error now and you expect a refund of that admin fee or you will escalate the dispute with them and with your card company:

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009...s-urged/30698/

Please show us the wording of the hire t&cs and do let us know what happens with the hire company in due course.