47kg Propane Calor Gas Prices - What are you paying?

midnight007

Hi frugalstephen. Who was it that told you that you definitely cannot fill a gas cylinder at a petrol station. The person who told you this will no doubt be able to provide you with an answer and point you to the relavent reg or law. If they do point you to a reg or law then keep in mind that we are talking about refillable cylinders and not disposable cylinders. Petrol stations will not allow you to refill these cylinders and when asked why the only reason that they come up with is because we dont allow it. I do not advocate that anyone refills these cylinders, but you must ask yourself why it is you are stopped from filling these cylinders that are both designed and manufactured to be refilled. As a matter of interest what is the price of Autogas where you are.

frugalstephen

midnight007 wrote: »

As a matter of interest what is the price of Autogas where you are.

Autogas is 74p/liter, Calor are charging £93.50 for a cylinder...

midnight007

So 47kg being equal to 93 litres.
At .74 ppl x 93 ltr = £68.82 which would save £26.68.
Now I dont now about Northern Ireland, but on the mainland that .74 ppl would have 5% road fuel duty included in it. So by a rough estimate you as a domestic user are being ripped off by about £30.00 on each 47kg bottle of gas. It will be even more if you buy smaller sizes like 19kg bottles. In a nutshell Calorgas is just another name for organised crime. I bet it is either Calorgas or Flogas that supplies your local petrol station with their Autogas. Calorgas also goes by other names/brands. I have a list of these some where. If I can find the list then I will post it. For some of you that may well explain why the prices of other names/brands are simular to the Calorgas price. Do you have any idea as to the prices in the south. both bottled and autogas.

midnight007

To assist some of you to better understand the process of refilling and to hi light what it is that I am trying to get across:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9EXTnXOnwY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGDAdWqIQ_Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik7y39gal3c

and an example of an adaptor for bottles. Pay attention to the instructions that this person has taken both the time and trouble to include. If you do not understand them then ask him or ask here and I will do my best to answer them. I would like to make it clear to all that I have no association with either of these people. I just make good use of the infomation that is about if you look for it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LPG-Autogas-ADAPTOR-Bayonet-VALVE-INSIDE-for-refill-Camper-Gas-Bottle-in-UK-/171396358342?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item27e804e0c6

I will update this post as and when I find more infomation. It appears that at the moment both Calorgas and Flow gas are feeling the pinch of compitition from independant bulk gas supliers, so they are screwing those who use bottled gas in order to sustain their profits.

Warning from Calorgas

http://www.Calor.co.uk/about-Calor/press-centre/unlawful-filling-at-autogas-sites/

Gasit websit link to their refilable bottles (scoll down the page). By no means cheap. The capacity of these bottles is not huge. The largest bottle that they do is 42 ltr - 20%.

http://www.gasit.co.uk/index.php?_a=category&cat_id=2

You can also get 4 hole tanks which are for camper vans and caravans. These are painted red as your gas bottles are and this is to indicate that they are vapour only. They are referred to as torpedo shapped and Gasit advertise some in this style. These can sometimes be found on ebay.

The regular lpg tanks that are fitted into lpg converted cars are either 4 hole or single hole tanks and they draw liquid lpg. These are painted black. They do not draw vapour as some people on the lpg car forums seem to think. It is the job of the vapouriser which is fitted into the engine bay of the car and which is fed hot coolant from the cooling system of the car that allows the liquid lpg to turn from a liqiud into a gas. The 4 hole tanks can have a vapour take off fitted insead of a liquid take off.

An example of a 4 hole tank without a vapour take off. This is a 100 ltr capacity so it will hold around 80 ltr's. It would need to be emptied of gas and the it would need a vapour take off to be fitted. That could be done by any lpg installer.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stako-LPG-cylinder-tank-100-litres-4-hole-All-valves-present-Part-full-/181592301687?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a47bea077

Here is an example of a tank which may have a vapour take off. The picture quality is poor so it is hard to confirm. Asking the seller some questions would hopefully clarify if it does or does not. The tank may look in poor condition with rust and that fact may put some people off. These tanks are very robust as thay have to be. It would always be wise to arrange to view befor hand to get an idea of its true condition.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/L-P-G-tank-car-van-camper-/181593959423?ssPageName=ADME:SS:SS:GB:1120

How does a natural gas regulator work also applicable to a propane regulator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4DDnoMAHY8

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y_RX6TKEv4

bobhawke

So much terrible information.

Autogas fuel duty is not 5% it is 0.3161£/kg as found here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-and-allowances-excise-duty-hydrocarbon-oils/rates-and-allowances-excise-duty-hydrocarbon-oils#road-fuel-gases
That is essentially 16 pence a litre which is a hell of a lot more than 5%.
Next you have VAT at 20% on autogas but it is only 5% on bottled gas then there are the completely different expenses involved in the 2 operations and safety requirements for an autogas station compared to a gas bottle filling station.


Keeping track of autogas prices can give you a rough idea of whether prices are rising or falling (though autogas is more sensitive to price changes due to volume involved and low margin) but to use it as a guideline for what you should be paying is foolish.

Check the graphs in this thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1003291
They will give you an accurate idea of the wholesale price of Propane. To complicate the issue even further, Calor and Flogas have a lot of storage (Calor in particular has the caverns which each store 60,000 tonnes of lpg)
http://www.phillips66.co.uk/EN/fuels/lpg/Pages/caverns.aspx


UKLPG guidelines for refillable cylinders:
http://www.uklpg.org/uploads/DOC4E7749E87E660.pdf
You aren't supposed to fill them unless they are fixed to the vehicle. I doubt it's a safety issue, more of a protecting their members interests issue.
Here is a list of retailers that will let you refill the refillable gas cylinders:
http://www.safefill.co.uk/refilling-retailers.html

I hate the stranglehold that Calor and Flogas have on the gas market and they do rip people off, but at least get your facts straight.

For autogas prices:
I believe this lot keep an up to date map and regularly update the prices
http://www.go-autogas.com/

List of gas brands and who owns them:
http://www.cityrisk.co.uk/Resources/LPGCompaniesandContacts.pdf
Not entirely up to date though as it still has Macgas as owned by BP when it is owned by Flogas now.

midnight007

Well done bob. Finally some input that proves that we are not alone and that there is some life out there. So there it is. Its cheaper to run your car on lpg then it is to cook and heat your home. Of course this may well depend on where you live. All those people that live in Northern Ireland that are paying £91.00 for a bottle of gas will understand.

[Deleted User]

remember the price is always connected to supply and demand,and of course the price for most 47kg includes delivery connection and removal of empty,we paid £45 from flogas last week and it was del 3 hours after we placed the order

Big_Rich

Hi Woodbine, Do you remember name of company if so could you tell me as I live nr chesterfield and would like to buy a bottle for my cooker (I only use one bottle per year) Thanks in advance Richard

jmccoy

Just paid £93 for 47KG Flogas from local agent in Newry Co. Down
Compared to some of the prices quoted above seems I am being ripped off

nogginthenog777

I live in a Park Home in North Essex and currently pay £57 for a 47kg bottle of Propane delivered from a supplier in Clacton. A group of us on the Park order together to get this price and thus avoid delivery charges. I also order the odd bottle from the park itself at £58.52 each, delivery free. These prices have been in place for well over a year now.
Considering that the price of petrol, heating oil etc. has decreased considerably due to the virtual halving of the world wholesale price of a barrel of oil and Propane is a petroleum derivative, I feel that companies like Calor (or the suppliers or both) are coining it in by not passing on their savings to the consumer!
Any comments on this observation would be welcome, even from Calor or the suppliers !!!