Nibe Fighter 360p ashp costing me loads to run

ra200

I will contact them aswell,

Still not word or telephone call from my landloard Melin Homes:( I am still living here with two children and can not use the heating system as it is too expensive and noisy,

lovesfarmbpha wrote: »

I am concerned as to why the NIBE exhaust air heat pump model 205p and 360p,MCS cert no.s HP0003/13 & HP0003/12 have been awarded the MCS certification.
Currently many housing developments with such products are experiencing high energy bills.
On further inspection into the NIBE fighter 360p manual,as attached, I have discovered that on page 56 it gives the COP as 2.6 and this has been calculated in lab conditions with only the 655Watts/ 550 Watts(550 for single phase output) from the compressor...
However this is not the only electrical power the unit consumes .
The unit has a constant mechanical ventilation which runs at various speeds but for this case we shall use a typical normal fan speed setting which takes 140 volts at a current of 1.25 Amp so total 175 Watts which is 4.2 Kw for a 24 hour period.
The central heating system pump also draws 100 Watts however is not in constant use.
So an example is hot water only required ,over a 24 hour period.The compressor will run for an average of 5 hours during the 24 hour period using 2.75Kwh electric using the 2.6 COP will give 7.15 Kwh in return or 4.4 Kwh free/recycled power.
Sounds good so far until we add in the fan power running for the 24 hour period at 4.2Kw.
So we have an energy saving of 200Watts over the 24 hour period,not what I would call ground breaking.
However we have not included the central heating pump at 100w nor the 6Kw immersion element that kicks is every 14 days to kill legionnaires disease.
We also need to apply seasonal variance.
We feel that the COP is incorrect for the above reasons and that the device is not a renewable energy source . We would like you to investigate our claim.

lovesfarmbpha

The company that certifies the NIBE boilers(BRE global ,based in Watford) as an MCS(renewable energy) accredited product have REFUSED to allow us to see the test result of how they calulated the NIBEs performance as they said it was client confidentiality....we are now going to UKAS to get these results.......the minimum standard of COP to comply with MCS is 2.5 the NIBE product scored 2.6...but they have not calulated in the fan which would bring it to 2.2 and therfore not be a renewable energy source and not be an MCS acreedited product.....what a joke...I thought that MCS was here to govern these people,,,,,,,

tatters1984

I also have a Nibe Fighter 360P in my house. I moved in on 26th November to my new build housing association property. Its a 3 bed house. I was advised not to touch this system as it would simply run itself. Which I did. Obviously I began to monitor the usage at the time and was horrified to see that i was using 40 - 50 units of electric per day, the boiler was in its winter setting! I contacted my housing association who came out, they assured me that it was set correctly. My first bill (26th November - 31st December) was £175. My second bill was on 18th March - £262.40. I then switched my boiler to Spring/Autumn Mode where I saw an improvement, bill issued on 23/04/2011 (65.61). Throughout the summer I saw further improvements. I have only been using 10 - 15 units per day. My housing association asked me to take part in a review for this boiler system as I complained of high usage during the winter months. This took place today, the engineer advised me that the costs during the winter were very excessive. Upon further investigation he noted down faults with the boiler and the outdoor sensor. These will need to be looked at. I have spent £700 in 10 months. The engineer seems to think that if these faults are fixed I will save more money. For me I've had a few teething problems but it seems to be working, for the moment anyway. We shall see what happens when I put the heating back on.

lovesfarmbpha

Yes indeed we are all waiting for winter and the NIBE system to kick in...
Try never to put it on winter setting as this will use the immersion which is 6kw of pure power.
You may want to put an extra layer of loft insulation on.
which is always a good idea and if you have some of the duct(pipe) work that takes the hot air to the boiler from the rooms in the loft make sure you put the insulation over it .B@Q tend to do decent offers...we bought some bit by bit every time they did an offer took a year but the loft is insulated for £80.
Also the fan eats circa 170 watts which is about 4Kw a day 40p a day ish.Depends what levels it has been set at.
This sytems are not green thats for sure I work at the engineering dept at Cambridge Uni and I was talking to one of the lecturers who is doing tests on them and they said you would need to have a heat pump that was 400% efficient (COP of 4) to achieve any green credentials as the price difference between gas and electric is huge...also he said that electricity in the UK is dirty as in not green at all as most comes from coal,then gas.
When you investigate ,as we have done ,
the certifcates,,,,,,, you come across some disturbing figures and a wall of confidentiality...

ra200

Still have not heard nothing back from melin about moving us they have empty houses up the road from us but refuse to move us even though they miss sold us the tenancy on this property, Also have not heard nothing back regarding our heating system,

So it looking like they are now blanking us out now,

I had environmental health back out today and they have installed monitoring equipment again to record the noise of the Nibe,

And I am still living in a house with 2 children with no central heating due to the noise and cost of it,

FuelPoverty

NIBE,

F200p, F360p, F205 & F360

These products are unsuitable for most social housing. They have very small compressors which have small KW outputs. For example the F200p - F205 only has a.500w compressor this equates to 1.5kw the other 1.5kw uses the immersion heater. NIBE originally recommended higher outputs making this worse, only recently have they altered the recommendations due to the high running cost issues. Even the latest recommendations are still 50% over sized for what they offer.

The BSEN standards for heating design clearly states under method 1 - that a continous heat source method, (which these are) is NOT recommended for Social Housing. The reason why these products are being installed is because they tick the boxes for the developers and are cheap to install rather than bringing gas onto the site.

There are alot of Social Housing trusts and developers who have and are still installing these and they should talk to one another, because there are literally hundreds of end users facing high running electrical costs because they are not suitable in most appliacations, especially if you take into consideration the hot water usage/ demand aspect. Some housing associations are actually paying towards the electricity bills because they are high.

In the name of fuel poverty why should people with little money pay for mechanical ventilation to run 24/7 at a cost of 100w 24 hours a day 365 days of the year? these small flats don't need heat recovery, that should be for large heat loss houses.

These units are sold by a few thousand, one housing trust is looking to take out over 100 of these units because they are not the best suited product for these appliactions. In Sweden, they have small heat losses and provide a secondary heat source such as a log burner because they have no gas.

I'm afraid that NIBE no that these are not suited and sell them oversized and your poor people in the social sector are left to pick up the costs.

Ask any social housing to contact Affintity Sutton haousing trust and ask them what they think. L&Q Housing Trust are suffering, there are many independant housing associations all suffering, being passed off by NIBE. They say there is nothing wrong with their product. There isn't, that's true, it's just not suited for this specific application and end user usage.

For those who disagree, wait until you get you electricty bills in after the cold weather that is forcast this winter 2011.

These products DO NOT truly conform to the BS EN Heating Design criteria. Look up method 1. Also, they require freash air ventilation intakes either 3no or 4no, this only makes the ventilation heat loss worse.

I have seen a lady in tears with a 360 in a 3 bedroom detached house, social housing. The product is effecient and working correctly. It just shouldn't be in this house. In only has a 160l storage of hot water at 50 deg. That won't last five minutes with children. So you use the immersion to solve the problem???? Effectively you all have an electric boiler that saves a little bit of money in the summer only.

Sorry to say - there is always a winner and loser and NIBE Energy Sytems Ltd are the finacial winners!!

There is a new product called the Atherma Flex which is made by Daikin, this product has been launched recently. It is suitable for social housing sector its provides:

Hot water temp for heating at 80deg. No oversized radiators
Larger Hotwater storage - 200l & 300l
No continuos ventilation running 24/7
No undersizing problems for heat loss.

This product also be eligible for RHI as it's a form of district heating where as the EAHP NIBE rubbish won't. Let's hope the truth will prevail and NIBE end up being the losers!!!!!

:A

FuelPoverty

NIBE,

F200p, F360p, F205 & F360

These products are unsuitable for most social housing. They have very small compressors which have small KW outputs. For example the F200p - F205 only has a.500w compressor this equates to 1.5kw the other 1.5kw uses the immersion heater. NIBE originally recommended higher outputs making this worse, only recently have they altered the recommendations due to the high running cost issues. Even the latest recommendations are still 50% over sized for what they offer.

The BSEN standards for heating design clearly states under method 1 - that a continous heat source method, (which these are) is NOT recommended for Social Housing. The reason why these products are being installed is because they tick the boxes for the developers and are cheap to install rather than bringing gas onto the site.

There are alot of Social Housing trusts and developers who have and are still installing these and they should talk to one another, because there are literally hundreds of end users facing high running electrical costs because they are not suitable in most appliacations, especially if you take into consideration the hot water usage/ demand aspect. Some housing associations are actually paying towards the electricity bills because they are high.

In the name of fuel poverty why should people with little money pay for mechanical ventilation to run 24/7 at a cost of 100w 24 hours a day 365 days of the year? these small flats don't need heat recovery, that should be for large heat loss houses.

These units are sold by a few thousand, one housing trust is looking to take out over 100 of these units because they are not the best suited product for these appliactions. In Sweden, they have small heat losses and provide a secondary heat source such as a log burner because they have no gas.

I'm afraid that NIBE no that these are not suited and sell them oversized and your poor people in the social sector are left to pick up the costs.

Ask any social housing to contact Affintity Sutton haousing trust and ask them what they think. L&Q Housing Trust are suffering, there are many independant housing associations all suffering, being passed off by NIBE. They say there is nothing wrong with their product. There isn't, that's true, it's just not suited for this specific application and end user usage.

For those who disagree, wait until you get you electricty bills in after the cold weather that is forcast this winter 2011.

These products DO NOT truly conform to the BS EN Heating Design criteria. Look up method 1. Also, they require freash air ventilation intakes either 3no or 4no, this only makes the ventilation heat loss worse.

I have seen a lady in tears with a 360 in a 3 bedroom detached house, social housing. The product is effecient and working correctly. It just shouldn't be in this house. In only has a 160l storage of hot water at 50 deg. That won't last five minutes with children. So you use the immersion to solve the problem???? Effectively you all have an electric boiler that saves a little bit of money in the summer only.

Sorry to say - there is always a winner and loser and NIBE Energy Sytems Ltd are the finacial winners!!

There is a new product called the Atherma Flex which is made by Daikin, this product has been launched recently. It is suitable for social housing sector its provides:

Hot water temp for heating at 80deg. No oversized radiators
Larger Hotwater storage - 200l & 300l
No continuos ventilation running 24/7
No undersizing problems for heat loss.

This product also be eligible for RHI as it's a form of district heating where as the EAHP NIBE rubbish won't. Let's hope the truth will prevail and NIBE end up being the losers!!!!!

FuelPoverty

NIBE,

F200p, F360p, F205 & F360

These products are unsuitable for most social housing. They have very small compressors which have small KW outputs. For example the F200p - F205 only has a.500w compressor this equates to 1.5kw the other 1.5kw uses the immersion heater. NIBE originally recommended higher outputs making this worse, only recently have they altered the recommendations due to the high running cost issues. Even the latest recommendations are still 50% over sized for what they offer.

The BSEN standards for heating design clearly states under method 1 - that a continous heat source method, (which these are) is NOT recommended for Social Housing. The reason why these products are being installed is because they tick the boxes for the developers and are cheap to install rather than bringing gas onto the site.

There are alot of Social Housing trusts and developers who have and are still installing these and they should talk to one another, because there are literally hundreds of end users facing high running electrical costs because they are not suitable in most appliacations, especially if you take into consideration the hot water usage/ demand aspect. Some housing associations are actually paying towards the electricity bills because they are high.

In the name of fuel poverty why should people with little money pay for mechanical ventilation to run 24/7 at a cost of 100w 24 hours a day 365 days of the year? these small flats don't need heat recovery, that should be for large heat loss houses.

These units are sold by a few thousand, one housing trust is looking to take out over 100 of these units because they are not the best suited product for these appliactions. In Sweden, they have small heat losses and provide a secondary heat source such as a log burner because they have no gas.

I'm afraid that NIBE no that these are not suited and sell them oversized and your poor people in the social sector are left to pick up the costs.

Ask any social housing to contact Affintity Sutton haousing trust and ask them what they think. L&Q Housing Trust are suffering, there are many independant housing associations all suffering, being passed off by NIBE. They say there is nothing wrong with their product. There isn't, that's true, it's just not suited for this specific application and end user usage.

For those who disagree, wait until you get you electricty bills in after the cold weather that is forcast this winter 2011.

These products DO NOT truly conform to the BS EN Heating Design criteria. Look up method 1. Also, they require freash air ventilation intakes either 3no or 4no, this only makes the ventilation heat loss worse.

I have seen a lady in tears with a 360 in a 3 bedroom detached house, social housing. The product is effecient and working correctly. It just shouldn't be in this house. In only has a 160l storage of hot water at 50 deg. That won't last five minutes with children. So you use the immersion to solve the problem???? Effectively you all have an electric boiler that saves a little bit of money in the summer only.

Sorry to say - there is always a winner and loser and NIBE Energy Sytems Ltd are the finacial winners!!

There is a new product called the Atherma Flex which is made by Daikin, this product has been launched recently. It is suitable for social housing sector its provides:

Hot water temp for heating at 80deg. No oversized radiators
Larger Hotwater storage - 200l & 300l
No continuos ventilation running 24/7
No undersizing problems for heat loss.

This product also be eligible for RHI as it's a form of district heating where as the EAHP NIBE rubbish won't. Let's hope the truth will prevail and NIBE end up being the losers!!!!!

FuelPoverty

NIBE,

F200p, F360p, F205 & F360

These products are unsuitable for most social housing. They have very small compressors which have small KW outputs. For example the F200p - F205 only has a.500w compressor this equates to 1.5kw the other 1.5kw uses the immersion heater. NIBE originally recommended higher outputs making this worse, only recently have they altered the recommendations due to the high running cost issues. Even the latest recommendations are still 50% over sized for what they offer.

The BSEN standards for heating design clearly states under method 1 - that a continous heat source method, (which these are) is NOT recommended for Social Housing. The reason why these products are being installed is because they tick the boxes for the developers and are cheap to install rather than bringing gas onto the site.

There are alot of Social Housing trusts and developers who have and are still installing these and they should talk to one another, because there are literally hundreds of end users facing high running electrical costs because they are not suitable in most appliacations, especially if you take into consideration the hot water usage/ demand aspect. Some housing associations are actually paying towards the electricity bills because they are high.

In the name of fuel poverty why should people with little money pay for mechanical ventilation to run 24/7 at a cost of 100w 24 hours a day 365 days of the year? these small flats don't need heat recovery, that should be for large heat loss houses.

These units are sold by a few thousand, one housing trust is looking to take out over 100 of these units because they are not the best suited product for these appliactions. In Sweden, they have small heat losses and provide a secondary heat source such as a log burner because they have no gas.

I'm afraid that NIBE no that these are not suited and sell them oversized and your poor people in the social sector are left to pick up the costs.

Ask any social housing to contact Affintity Sutton haousing trust and ask them what they think. L&Q Housing Trust are suffering, there are many independant housing associations all suffering, being passed off by NIBE. They say there is nothing wrong with their product. There isn't, that's true, it's just not suited for this specific application and end user usage.

For those who disagree, wait until you get you electricty bills in after the cold weather that is forcast this winter 2011.

These products DO NOT truly conform to the BS EN Heating Design criteria. Look up method 1. Also, they require freash air ventilation intakes either 3no or 4no, this only makes the ventilation heat loss worse.

I have seen a lady in tears with a 360 in a 3 bedroom detached house, social housing. The product is effecient and working correctly. It just shouldn't be in this house. In only has a 160l storage of hot water at 50 deg. That won't last five minutes with children. So you use the immersion to solve the problem???? Effectively you all have an electric boiler that saves a little bit of money in the summer only.

Sorry to say - there is always a winner and loser and NIBE Energy Sytems Ltd are the finacial winners!!

There is a new product called the Atherma Flex which is made by Daikin, this product has been launched recently. It is suitable for social housing sector its provides:

Hot water temp for heating at 80deg. No oversized radiators
Larger Hotwater storage - 200l & 300l
No continuos ventilation running 24/7
No undersizing problems for heat loss.

This product also be eligible for RHI as it's a form of district heating where as the EAHP NIBE rubbish won't. Let's hope the truth will prevail and NIBE end up being the losers!!!!!

1plus1equal3 wrote: »

I have been following ra,s problems on here with his heating system for a few months now. I also live in a new build housing association house, but mine is fitted with a nibe 2005 fighter unit. And i can honestly say the last 18 months have been so stessfull, i live in a 2 bedroom house, and at one time my daily consumption of electricity was 60 units a day, and considering i only get an income of 75 pounds a week , i was going out of my mind with worry. I have lost count of the number of heating engineers that have been round to try and get the system running correctly, each one undoing what has been done by the previous one, and doing what they think is correct, and never has been. i have ranted and raved at the housing association, and i will give them their due, they have always remained polite, but i think they were also at a lost at what to do to put things right. finally last month, they paid for an engineer to come from norwich, and he really did know what he was doing, and since hes been my electric consumption has gone down to between 24 and 32 , which is far better. im still not happy with this figure, because looking on all the nibe sites they all say that having these systems will save money on bills, and i moved from a 4 bedroom house with gas central heating and my combined gas and electric bills were far cheaper then what my nibe system costs to run, and i feel a lot of the time my house is too chilly, but i dare not turn the curve switch up any higher, as it will cost even more. i know nothing about these system, but i sometimes feel that the housing association expect me to learn them inside out, and have gone from saying leave them alone, when i first moved in, to learn how to use it now, which is never going to happen.I think its all well and good building these houses of the future, but like ra, i also have problems with the house itself, but i have asked the housing association to move me to another new build , in the same area, when they have them, and the association have assured me that they wont be using these systems again.so i think i can moan forever about the cost, the noise, the awfull design of the house, which has deterioated terribly, or i can cut my losses and move, as i will never feel at home in this house, and in hindsight, i should of asked more questions about the cost of of these systems to run, i should of realised they are noisy, and i should of known that the lovely colour wood they used to build my house, was going to go mouldy and grey, and look like it was a really rough area, and not in keeping with the surrounding houses.you live and learn, but i would like to say to ra, consider moving, i dont think you will ever be happy with where you are

FuelPoverty

NIBE,

F200p, F360p, F205 & F360

These products are unsuitable for most social housing. They have very small compressors which have small KW outputs. For example the F200p - F205 only has a.500w compressor this equates to 1.5kw the other 1.5kw uses the immersion heater. NIBE originally recommended higher outputs making this worse, only recently have they altered the recommendations due to the high running cost issues. Even the latest recommendations are still 50% over sized for what they offer.

The BSEN standards for heating design clearly states under method 1 - that a continous heat source method, (which these are) is NOT recommended for Social Housing. The reason why these products are being installed is because they tick the boxes for the developers and are cheap to install rather than bringing gas onto the site.

There are alot of Social Housing trusts and developers who have and are still installing these and they should talk to one another, because there are literally hundreds of end users facing high running electrical costs because they are not suitable in most appliacations, especially if you take into consideration the hot water usage/ demand aspect. Some housing associations are actually paying towards the electricity bills because they are high.

In the name of fuel poverty why should people with little money pay for mechanical ventilation to run 24/7 at a cost of 100w 24 hours a day 365 days of the year? these small flats don't need heat recovery, that should be for large heat loss houses.

These units are sold by a few thousand, one housing trust is looking to take out over 100 of these units because they are not the best suited product for these appliactions. In Sweden, they have small heat losses and provide a secondary heat source such as a log burner because they have no gas.

I'm afraid that NIBE no that these are not suited and sell them oversized and your poor people in the social sector are left to pick up the costs.

Ask any social housing to contact Affintity Sutton haousing trust and ask them what they think. L&Q Housing Trust are suffering, there are many independant housing associations all suffering, being passed off by NIBE. They say there is nothing wrong with their product. There isn't, that's true, it's just not suited for this specific application and end user usage.

For those who disagree, wait until you get you electricty bills in after the cold weather that is forcast this winter 2011.

These products DO NOT truly conform to the BS EN Heating Design criteria. Look up method 1. Also, they require freash air ventilation intakes either 3no or 4no, this only makes the ventilation heat loss worse.

I have seen a lady in tears with a 360 in a 3 bedroom detached house, social housing. The product is effecient and working correctly. It just shouldn't be in this house. In only has a 160l storage of hot water at 50 deg. That won't last five minutes with children. So you use the immersion to solve the problem???? Effectively you all have an electric boiler that saves a little bit of money in the summer only.

Sorry to say - there is always a winner and loser and NIBE Energy Sytems Ltd are the finacial winners!!

There is a new product called the Atherma Flex which is made by Daikin, this product has been launched recently. It is suitable for social housing sector its provides:

Hot water temp for heating at 80deg. No oversized radiators
Larger Hotwater storage - 200l & 300l
No continuos ventilation running 24/7
No undersizing problems for heat loss.

This product also be eligible for RHI as it's a form of district heating where as the EAHP NIBE rubbish won't. Let's hope the truth will prevail and NIBE end up being the losers!!!!!