Nibe Fighter 360p ashp costing me loads to run

caitygeorge123

Hi,

Yep it is a nibe fighter 360p - we have vents in every room, which we have now learnt is wrong and they are also wrongly installed: blowing out air rather than sucking it in!
It seems our whole system was installed by cowboys who didn't know what they were doing and have now conviently gone bust.
We are also a new estate of 8 houses and each house has been wrongly installed but all in different ways!!

Our housing association are being quite good to be fair - the only problem being that they also don't know how this system should or shouldn't work.

I did think it was odd that when trying to heat the house we had cold air blowing out? But was told that as its a concealed house this was the way fresh air entered the property!
Air conditioning in the winter - excellent!! Just what you need with two small children!

1plus1equal3

how many units of electricity are you actually using a day ra, i use 25/27 a day in a 2 bedroom house, and im happy with that, as its heating and all electrics in the house.Why dont your housing association believe your usage, cant you show them your bills.

ra200

I live in a large 3 bed house so it would have far bigger heating needs than a two bed usage depends on the time of year and how cold it is outside,

1plus1equal3 wrote: »

how many units of electricity are you actually using a day ra, i use 25/27 a day in a 2 bedroom house, and im happy with that, as its heating and all electrics in the house.Why dont your housing association believe your usage, cant you show them your bills.

ra200

This looks like it is worth a watch,

Phil Hurley, the Managing Director of NIBE Energy Systems, will be discussing how its Heat Pumps operate and the money saving advantages which can be obtained by installing any one of its units on a new TV series on "How to Reduce Energy Consumption and Save Money" which will be showing on Sky Channel 201 and Freesat Channel 403 on Tuesday 8th March at 7:30pm and repeated on 13th March at 6:00pm.
It is hoped that this new eight part series will encourage Britain's homeowners to explore new ways of saving money and reduce their carbon footprint. The first two episodes will explore how the average household can reduce its bills by as much as £225 per year, together with practical support and how to appy for financial support.
This new series is expected to attract 22 million views in over 9 million homes in the UK. These programmes are accessibly to any Sky subscribers and are also accessible to "Free to air" channels.

http://www.nibe.co.uk/Home-Owner/NIBE-Heat-Pump-News/NIBE-How-To-on-the-Small-Screen

1plus1equal3

hi ra, how many units of electric are you using this time of year, if as you think your usage is really high, you need to go through the proper channels of complaint, working up the list , from manager, to director, and keeping a copy of everything . eventually you will get to the board of your housing association, who you will be able to sit in front of, and put your case,and show your evidence.

ra200

Hi to cut a long story short we had a bill for over £1600 for 11 month electric but the nibe was off for about 5-6 months (April- end of September) and when it was on we never used any hot water from it £400 of that was for appliances so the nibe used just over £1200 for 5-6 months use and that was not using the hot water if i used hot water and and left it on for the full length of time swalec has informed us and i have worked out our bill would be over £2200,

If i used the nibe today it would of used a max of 15.9 units of electric the main problem is November December and January and most of Febuary as when the temp drops below 7c the amount of electric is uses goes sky high,

So if the temp is average 7c outside or about i can set the nibe 360p to spring /autumn mode so it blocks the immersion heater this is then very good as the house can be heated from just the compressor and the running costs drop by a huge amount and it would not used no more that 15.9 units if electric a day,

I think my housing association think I do not know how the nibe 360p exhaust air to water air pumps works but it is a very simple design I have a university BSc (Hons) degree in physics and am also a electrical and telecoms engineer so it is very easy for me to understand,

Below is a break down on the cost of using the nibe in different times of the year if you go very careful with the amount of hot water it uses I have worked out my approximate usage see how high my usage can get in winter mode

September = spring /autumn mode = max of 15.9 units per day
October = spring /autumn mode max of of 15.9 units per day
November = Winter mode very high 80-160 units a day
December = Winter mode very high 80-160 units a day
January = Winter mode very high 80-160 units a day
Febuary = Winter mode very high 70-160 units a day
March = Sping mode max of 15.9 units per day
April = Spring mode max of 15.9 units per day
May = Summer mode max of 5 units per day
June = Summer mode max of 5 units per day
July = Summer mode max of 5 units per day
August = Summer mode max of 5 units per day

See how high the usage is in the winter we might as well have a electric boiler that is because heat pumps have what is called a COP rating (coefficient of performance) rating http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/heat-pump-efficiency-ratings-d_1117.html but the colder it gets the lower the COP gets so our nibe has a COP of 3.5 when it around 8c outside which means for every 1 unit of electric you put in you get 3.5 out in the form of heat / hot water but as the temp falls outside so does the COP rating and the nibe then cost the same as a electric boiler to run,

So as I said earlier in this post when it is above 7c outside I can change it to spring /autumn mode as the COP rating is then higher as it is warmer outside then it will not use no more than 15.9 units a day but there is no way I can explain this to my housing association as they would not have a clue what I am talking about as it is a bit too scientific,

1plus1equal3 wrote: »

hi ra, how many units of electric are you using this time of year, if as you think your usage is really high, you need to go through the proper channels of complaint, working up the list , from manager, to director, and keeping a copy of everything . eventually you will get to the board of your housing association, who you will be able to sit in front of, and put your case,and show your evidence.

John_Pierpoint

Did you do a "SAP" before installing?

What are the "U" values of the envelope of your building?

Do you run it continuously?

How often per hour does it "cycle".

Do you have the ability to store any of the heat (perhaps in the floor slab) so you can run it at night on low coat electricity?

Do you know the flow and return temperatures of the heating system?

John_Pierpoint

Thanks, I have now managed to read all the thread - Phew.

Most of the questions are answered in the thread.

Will comment again if I have something worthwhile to say.

I first came across these exhaust air heat pumps about year ago and thought that, as any transfer of energy costs money, this is a bit like trying to make a living by everyone in the village getting rich by being paid to do their neighbour's washing.
I understand very few of these have been installed in the UK, so you are being used as a guinea pig.
[Anyone ever been in a house with electrical ceiling heating ? Funny that never really caught on back circa 1970]

The "Cambridge" report has been a good find; let us hope someone does not take it down!

ra200

How is every one getting on with their Nibe 360P since the weather has warmed up we try and not use the system if we can and turn it off at the mains as much as possible and use our calor gas heaters which warms the downstairs in no time at all on full then they can be turned down, Now that electric prices have risen and are due to go up again soon swalec say our next year’s bill would be over £ 2500 if the nibe was left on 24/7 last year cost us around £1600 and the system was off for over 5 months and when it was on we used no hot water and tried to keep the use and heat to a minimum in 12 months we used 14222 units of electric so if the system was left on 24/7 by next year we would be looking at 20000 units for 1 years use and we are going over to prepayment so we would be looking at 2000 x 0.14p = £2800.00p

John_Pierpoint

How much "fresh" air does this Nibe 360P use, in addition to the waste energy it is seeking in the exhaust air from the house?

There is no way that a house can be re heated efficiently by putting back the heat that is mechanically removed in the exhaust gas and speeding up the process as the weather gets colder.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A467714
In such a system the only new heat added to the loop would be full price electricity used coincidently in the house plus about 80 - 120 watts for each sweaty occupant. (let us pretend that no gas is available in the property).
It makes a little sense as a dehumidifier for a house that is hermetically sealed to "passiv hause" standards:
http://www.renewables-in-school.eu/WorksPassivHouse.htm

Meanwhile I think the original poster will be interested in this thread:
http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6681