Bitter sister in law

coolcait

KiKi wrote: »

Why is it unfair and out of order? Ceridwen clearly stated that she deliberately distanced herself from her relatives' and their children because she knew they'd have more than two kids and she didn't want to deal with it.

Seems quite fair to say she's less close to her family than the OP who was toasting a new baby at Christmas, sitting round a table with her extended family.

The OP ALSO clearly stated that she HAS tried to be close to her SIL, being kind and offering the hand of friendship. So yes, she does care for her and openly admits it - she just didn't like her rudeness. So I'm not really sure what you're trying to say as the OP has already said it...!

KiKi

Oh, there are a lot of little digs at Ceridwen. That first one I quoted is just part of a pattern.











Now, imagine I had tacked an extra sentence onto this post. One which said "but perhaps you are not as [positive trait, going by the views on the thread] as I am".

It's a nicely subtle put down towards Ceridwen. And it casts a positive light on the OP.

As a one-off throwaway remark, it might be tactless, but nothing more. It's still unfair. In the context of the other digs, I do find it uncomfortable at best.

shellsuit

coolcait wrote: »

I'm a little distrurbed by the number of personal comments and remarks that you are directing at Ceridwen. I haven't quoted them all, and I am aware that you are not the only one who has 'picked' on Cerdiwen for having a different opinion on this subject.

I think it is very brave of people to post against the flow of opinion on a thread, and from that point of view I for one appreciate the fact that Ceridwen took the time to share some very personal thoughts, views and experiences - whether or not I agree with the views expressed.

This thread has roundly criticised your SIL for reacting badly - and rudely - by not pretending to politely accept something she disagrees with.

How is her behaviour different from the behaviour you - and others - have displayed towards Ceridwen on this thread? The difference is we aren't all related and we're not all sat around the same table.
If someone had said to me what the SIL had said to her, I'd have got up and walked out, or chucked my drink in her face regardless of her views.

It's not always that easy when other people publicly put you in a position where you either have to 'betray' your principles by mouthing social platitudes, or stick to your principles but face a barrage of comments behind your back.

Who proposed the toast, in your SIL's presence, given that her views on having a third child are so well known to you all? Who put her - and you - in this situation?

Whoever stood up, glass in hand, and deliberately and publicly twanged that raw nerve also deserves a whole thread examining his or her motices.

Or is it an indication that your SIL's family doesn't care about her feelings as much as they care about her brother's?

Oh Lordy, here we go again :cool:

donquine

I think a lot of posters have unfairly assumed that all of us without children want children. I don't. I'm not bitter that I don't have any and I'm certainly not jealous of anyone who has any. It is possible to be female and not maternal.

I don't think the SIL's views were necessarily wrong, I just think she expressed them in a tactless way. There are some things that you think, that you really shouldn't ever say, no matter how true you believe them to be. I may not have children, but that doesn't mean I don't understand that insulting a parent's children in front of them is a stupid thing to do! Most people will put up with a lot of things, but never when it comes to their kids. You don't have to be a parent to be aware of that.

Buying for two of the OP's children and not for any subsequent ones does sound very much a kneejerk reaction rather than a statement of intent. As tactless as the SIL may be and as much as she might disapprove of the OP's lifestyle choices... I'm not convinced anyone would follow through with such a threat. Spending less on all of them or just sending them all a card, fine, I can see that... but showing an interest in two of them and ignoring the third completely? I just can't picture it. The fact that she spends money on the OP's two existing children right now, even though she clearly has no interest in kids herself, shows that she is not an uncaring individual.

I don't think the OP and the SIL are destined to be great friends... but I hope they reach an understanding.

LilacPixie

OP I persoanlly think you SIL behaved like a bit of a brat despite her age. I am sure we have all came up against lifestyle choices in others that we do not personally agree with but there is a time, way and a place for making your views be known and your SIL especially not taking part in a toast proposed by her own father. I bet he was mortified by his daughters 'rude' behaviour as I am guessing he raised her better than that.

Alittlesad

coolcait wrote: »

I'm a little distrurbed by the number of personal comments and remarks that you are directing at Ceridwen. I haven't quoted them all, and I am aware that you are not the only one who has 'picked' on Cerdiwen for having a different opinion on this subject.

I think it is very brave of people to post against the flow of opinion on a thread, and from that point of view I for one appreciate the fact that Ceridwen took the time to share some very personal thoughts, views and experiences - whether or not I agree with the views expressed.

This thread has roundly criticised your SIL for reacting badly - and rudely - by not pretending to politely accept something she disagrees with.

How is her behaviour different from the behaviour you - and others - have displayed towards Ceridwen on this thread?

It's not always that easy when other people publicly put you in a position where you either have to 'betray' your principles by mouthing social platitudes, or stick to your principles but face a barrage of comments behind your back.

Who proposed the toast, in your SIL's presence, given that her views on having a third child are so well known to you all? Who put her - and you - in this situation?

Whoever stood up, glass in hand, and deliberately and publicly twanged that raw nerve also deserves a whole thread examining his or her motices.

Or is it an indication that your SIL's family doesn't care about her feelings as much as they care about her brother's?

Gosh I am shocked that you've singled me out for this.
I started a thread in good faith for the reasons I have said elsewhere. Ceridwen put her points across and I clearly said that I thanked her for her input and was interested in her opinion.
I can't help it if I don't understand that opinion but I have not joined in with the personal name calling that others have to ceridwen even though she called me insensitive and called my father in law (a man I love dearly) much worse. I admit I was sharp in my last post to her but her analogies of drug taking and slavery as equal "crimes" to my pregnancy upset me if I'm honest.
I have never said that I think my sister in law's opinions are wrong but I do find fault in the way she expressed them and was shocked that ceridwen said what she did about her sibling's children and that she didn't think my SIL had been tactless.
My comment about ceridwen not being as close to her family as me was in no way a dig. It was an observation about a poster who by her own admission has distanced herself from her sibling's children and who admits that she and her family do not share their opinions with eachother. In my family we do share our opinions, tactfully and with respect for eachother and we don't deliberately distance ourselves from anyone. Pointing out the opinion that someone else doesn't seem as close to their family as I am to mine was in no way intended as an insult.
But go ahead and believe that of me if you wish.

Alittlesad

donquine wrote: »

I think a lot of posters have unfairly assumed that all of us without children want children.

I wouldn't dream of assuming that. I know lots of non maternal women and am great friends with one.

Alittlesad

coolcait wrote: »

Who proposed the toast, in your SIL's presence, given that her views on having a third child are so well known to you all? Who put her - and you - in this situation?

Whoever stood up, glass in hand, and deliberately and publicly twanged that raw nerve also deserves a whole thread examining his or her motices.

?

If you read the thread you will see that it was my FIL who proposed the toast to his unborn grandchild.

coolcait

bunty109 wrote: »

they don't need to hurt the OP's feelings by stating so just because their feelings have been hurt by someone suggesting a toast.

But why are the OP's feelings more worthy of protection than the SIL's?

This is what I can't get my head around. The OP told us the SIL's views very clearly - right down to the fact that the SIL had considered how she would feel if the the OP and her husband has a third child.

The OP - rightly - did her family planning with her husband, based on what they wanted and what they could afford. Not on what the SIL believes.

There appears to be an extended family which is delighted about the new baby. Plenty of people to raise a glass in celebration and congratulations, without needing the SIL there to make up numbers.

I simply do not understand why - in a family which knows about the SIL's views, and has often described her among themeselves as 'bitter', and is well aware that she is 'outspoken' at best, but more often described as 'rude' - her own father would put her, his son, his pregnant daughter-in-law and the rest of the family in this situation.

He could have made the toast when she wasn't present. Avoiding the awkward situation.

I also wonder what would have happened if the SIL had politely raised her glass and murmured "I'm happy for you", or another tactful comment? How long would it be before the family were making comments about her being two-faced, because everyone knows how she really feels about third babies? Or that she's obviously a hypocrite? Doesn't feel that strongly about over-population does she? etc

I also think that she was put in an impossible postion - and I'm shocked to read that it was her own father who did that to her!

I don't think that it would be right for her to differentiate between the two children you already have, and the one that's on the way. However, there's plenty of time to see whether or not that's actually what she does. It may simply have been a bad reaction to being put in an awkward situation.

coolcait

immynjoesmum wrote: »

I don't think it's a case of trying to make her conform to conventional opinion, just a case of trying to make her be polite!

Isn't 'being polite' very much part of 'conforming to conventional opinion'?

Alittlesad

coolcait wrote: »

I also wonder what would have happened if the SIL had politely raised her glass and murmured "I'm happy for you", or another tactful comment? How long would it be before the family were making comments about her being two-faced, because everyone knows how she really feels about third babies? Or that she's obviously a hypocrite? Doesn't feel that strongly about over-population does she? etc

.

With all due respect, that is not what would have happened. I for one would have been far more likely to thank her and give her a hug. I would have realised that she had raised her glass with difficulty but that is what I expected her to do given that she was brought up by the same parents who reared my considerate, kind and empathetic husband.