Bitter sister in law

lostinrates

Luckyred wrote: »

and you are right of course that the amount of children anyone has is no ones business but their own.

Except....that's not quite right. For both good and bad for society as a whole.

..there is the environmental issue, and that of the society we live in. I have no issue with paying taxes to include things like education and healthcare....or receiving the benefits of education. But it ersDOES impact on me in both good and bad ways. Generally..not necessarily personally...which is why I'd bite my tongue in a personal situation but comment in this sort of impersonal or a general one.

mumps

ceridwen wrote: »

Can I point out that I would personally do the conventional "congratulations", etc on child 1 and 2 that anyone had - indeed I have done.

In this particular instance though - ie the late 20th century/early 21st century dilemma of having a child no. 3 or beyond - then what is the option 3 in those circumstances?

Hence - why I think this must not be "flaunted" in front of SIL - to make it possible for her to maintain ties to the family, whilst not going against deeply-held beliefs. So - I think FIL was being "hugely insensitive" (I could phrase this a lot more strongly....) to do this to his own daughter...How could he treat his own daughter this way? To me - that smacks of trying to force her to conform to conventional opinion regardless and it would have made me very very angry indeed with him in SIL's position....

Delaying reproduction is also a positive way of controlling population, so maybe baby no 3 is the one that should receive congratulations and baby 1 and 2, who were obviously born when parents were younger, are the ones she should be ignoring.

Primrose

Well, you could always turn the other cheek and do something completely unexpected -(and I say this with tongue in cheek) but you could always drop her a note and say how disappointed you were with her reaction because you were thinking of asking her to be one of the Godparents :rotfl:

milliebear00001

lostinrates wrote: »

Except....that's not quite right. For both good and bad for society as a whole.

..there is the environmental issue, and that of the society we live in. I have no issue with paying taxes to include things like education and healthcare....or receiving the benefits of education. But it ersDOES impact on me in both good and bad ways. Generally..not necessarily personally...which is why I'd bite my tongue in a personal situation but comment in this sort of impersonal or a general one.

But neither is your view quite right either. The number of children a couple have can never be anything other than their choice - take a look at China if you want an alternative to freedom of choice over family size. You are entitled to a view, but not a veto.

Lots of things impact on us in good or bad ways. We have the right to express a view, and even seek to persuade others, but there is a time and place for fighting those battles. It makes far more sense to save that debate for arenas where it might have some impact. Nothing the SIL has done in this scenario has achieved anything other than unhappiness and resentment, so what exactly, was her point?

lostinrates

milliebear00001 wrote: »

But neither is your view quite right either. The number of children a couple have can never be anything other than their choice - take a look at China if you want an alternative to freedom of choice over family size. You are entitled to a view, but not a veto.

Lots of things impact on us in good or bad ways. We have the right to express a view, and even seek to persuade others, but there is a time and place for fighting those battles. It makes far more sense to save that debate for arenas where it might have some impact. Nothing the SIL has done in this scenario has achieved anything other than unhappiness and resentment, so what exactly, was her point?

I stated in my very first post that I appreciated that my view was ''my view'' and not necessarily a truth and that I would not have done what the SiL did.

However it is not only my view that the number of children in this country, forget the world, can have a negative and/or positive impact on me ...and usually both positive and negative simultaneously! That's an economic and political truth (and I'm proud to live in a country where that is so.)

I agree the SiL from what is described to have happened has not behaved well. TBH, the interesting thing in the discussion for me is the repeated rudenesses by some of those criticising perceived rudeness. I find it fascinating.

I can see very clearly why OP is upset, and she has my sympathy (even though it wavered when it appeared SiL was badmouthed by OP but OP explained her perspective on that) Nevertheless its a fascinating discussion and I'm glad OP raised it.

skintchick

ceridwen wrote: »

Ah - so she was told secondhand and on the phone - ie the best way she could have been told.

Oh dear - to the raising of glasses at Christmas in front of her. That would have been understandable for you - but very embarrassing and awkward for her and it would have been better if the person who proposed the toast had chosen some point to do so when she wasnt present in the room. Because it was done when she was in the room - an awkward situation arose.

I cant say what I would have done if a SIL had got pregnant with a 3rd child in detail. I would have tried to totally ignore the whole thing and say/do absolutely nothing and "forget" about getting presents for any of the children (rather than having the 3rd child feeling "singled out").

I have neither seen nor read about how someone who knows about overpopulation ever dealt with being told that someone "close" was having a 3rd child. Therefore - I literally do not know how to deal with this - other than avoiding the subject totally. If I had seen or read about someone handling this situation well then I would know what to do - I would just remember their "method" and copy it word for word.

I guess its the same as any other situation - some of us at least watch and listen as to how others cope in a situation, pick out the best method we have spotted and copy it.

So "Ah yes...situation no. 3...a friend has lost someone close to them. I remember that person x dealt with it very well by doing so-and-so. Thats what I will do then." "Ah yes...situation no. 4....someone has got a better job...they are due to be congratulated. I will congratulate them then and say that I am happy for them."

This situation has simply never arisen near me - so I cant tell you. I'm hoping in the course of this thread to learn how to deal with one like it.

I'm late to this, but couldn;t the SIL simply have not raised her glass but done so quietly and not drawn attention to it. She could perhaps have simply sipped form her glass instead of toasting so it wasn;t obvious.

It's a bit like when I go to yoga. I'm a Christian, so when they do the 'touch the third eye and bow to the earth thanksing it for all it has done' bit at the end, I just sit there quietly. I don;t start banging on about how I believe that's nonsense and have they heard of this bloke called Jesus?!

I make no issue, they notice but make no issue back, we are all happy.

One doesn;t have to shout one's views all the time, especially when to do so may be rude for no purpose.

Degenerate

She doesn't sound like a very productive, useful member of society. Next time you see her you should suggest she visit Dignitas if she wants to do something about ovepopulation.

coolcait

Alittlesad wrote: »

... But perhaps you are not as close to your family as I am to mine

.

Totally unfair and out of order, IMO.

Although, it does demonstrate that you may, perhaps, be far closer to your SIL than you'd ever realise or admit.

KiKi

coolcait wrote: »

Totally unfair and out of order, IMO.

Why is it unfair and out of order? Ceridwen clearly stated that she deliberately distanced herself from her relatives' and their children because she knew they'd have more than two kids and she didn't want to deal with it.

Seems quite fair to say she's less close to her family than the OP who was toasting a new baby at Christmas, sitting round a table with her extended family.

The OP ALSO clearly stated that she HAS tried to be close to her SIL, being kind and offering the hand of friendship. So yes, she does care for her and openly admits it - she just didn't like her rudeness. So I'm not really sure what you're trying to say as the OP has already said it...!

KiKi

coolcait

Alittlesad wrote: »

but judging by ceridwen's statements and the fact that she and my SIl seem to be singing from the same hymn sheet on this one, I don't hold out much hope that she will surprise us all and welcome the new baby with love.:(

I'm a little distrurbed by the number of personal comments and remarks that you are directing at Ceridwen. I haven't quoted them all, and I am aware that you are not the only one who has 'picked' on Cerdiwen for having a different opinion on this subject.

I think it is very brave of people to post against the flow of opinion on a thread, and from that point of view I for one appreciate the fact that Ceridwen took the time to share some very personal thoughts, views and experiences - whether or not I agree with the views expressed.

This thread has roundly criticised your SIL for reacting badly - and rudely - by not pretending to politely accept something she disagrees with.

How is her behaviour different from the behaviour you - and others - have displayed towards Ceridwen on this thread?

It's not always that easy when other people publicly put you in a position where you either have to 'betray' your principles by mouthing social platitudes, or stick to your principles but face a barrage of comments behind your back.

Who proposed the toast, in your SIL's presence, given that her views on having a third child are so well known to you all? Who put her - and you - in this situation?

Whoever stood up, glass in hand, and deliberately and publicly twanged that raw nerve also deserves a whole thread examining his or her motices.

Or is it an indication that your SIL's family doesn't care about her feelings as much as they care about her brother's?