Estranged Son- made for an upsetting Christmas.

Minxz

Gigglepig wrote: »

"I got a looong text back, basically rtelling me he was 'disgusted' by me, as he thinks I did my best to f up his life .. I really don't get that- the spoilt thing got everything he asked for, I had to put up with all his anger & violence towards family, and stood by him even when he went to court.
Then he said I ' added nothing to his life now'... which made me question, was I only in his life till he could stand on hsi own 2 feet, and then disposed of like an old tissue?!"

This must be very hard for you. However, I would also reflect on what your son is telling you.

You mention giving him money and practical help - I would play the devil's advocate and ask what but other "baggage" he brought with him from home - such as self-esteem, confidence etc - all of those non-material things? Also, if he had/has a lot of anger in him, it may come from pain.

Has he given you any specific examples of the negative impact he says you have had on his life? For example, does he blame you for "driving away" his dad?
If he is "disgusted" with you, why is that? Do you know what he finds disgusting, any particular personality traits, personal choices, lifestyle etc. he disagrees with?

No, I don't think he blames me for his dad.. he used to shout that i was useless and thats why he left me.. but deep down he knows that's not true, as his dad became violent , and when he went for the kids one day i threw him out..I darn't even think what their life would have been like if I'd let himn stay.

If he has given specific examples it may be good to reflect on these (and possibly get input from an impartial third party such as a counsellor) - I am not trying to defend his behaviour in any way, but if you try to find out more about his thought process it will help you understand why he now rejects you. If he does point to something you did/do that he is angry about. Parenting isn't easy and most people dislike some aspect of their parents' parenting approach or personality traits, even when their parents have done their best.

Gigglepig wrote: »

If you don't know why he is disgusted with you or why he thinks you have messed up his life, I would firstly think hard about it and secondly tell him you are sorry to hear that he thinks this, and ask if he can explain it to you and give you some examples.

He was always loved, and had pretty good self confidence, I knew deep down sometimes he was insecure, and i always tried reassuring him I loved him, even when he was at his worst, I always told him I loved him.. and he used to say it back too on the phone from Uni..
Yes, I'm no perfect parent, and have made mistakes, but he's not had an awful childhood, far from it.
He blames me for us being 'poor'... we wern't poor, but I was a single mum, worked, but not a huge amount left for luxuries. he thinks I'm a 'loser' because we lived in a council house and 'he deserved better'.. he said that if I had been a proper parent and bought a house, therefore ina better area, he would have gone to a better school, got better grades, and wouldn't be the skint one at Uni.. and get his rent etc paid like the others.:undecided

Gigglepig wrote: »

I would try to set up a family counselling session with your son (via other relatives/grandparents) so you can get some help to talk to each other.

I doubt he'd even consider it

red_devil

Minxz wrote: »

Small update-
Its a few months on, and I stopped texting him after Christmas, it was too painful, and i got the impression from other family members that he was starting to 'soften'..as he was asking how i was etc.
then i heard he'd had a bad couple of weeks at Uni, so like a mug I decided to text him, just said sorry to hear what's happened, and I'd like to ring him.
I got a looong text back, basically rtelling me he was 'disgusted' by me, as he thinks I did my best to f up his life .. I really don't get that- the spoilt thing got everything he asked for, I had to put up with all his anger & violence towards family, and stood by him even when he went to court.
Then he said I ' added nothing to his life now'... which made me question, was I only in his life till he could stand on hsi own 2 feet, and then disposed of like an old tissue?!

He's made it clear that he wants nothing to do with me... and I am finding it hard all over again. I feel almost a physical pain, I can't cope with the thought of losing him forever..despite what he has behaved like in the past. It's my other son's 21st birthday soon, we always take the whole family out for dinner, yet this time his elder brother won't come because of me. Plus it's made me think of that son's 21st.. he had a party, and we have some lovely photos of me & him together.
It's Mother's day soon... and sentimental things like that matter to me, and this year I have 'lost' a son.
I sent him a reply asking him to think about what he will do.. does this mean he'll never sttend weddings, funeral,s meet new babies in the family, attend his brother's graduation?

I saved for the last 3 years for both my boys graduation presents, i had £1,000 to give my son on grad day, along with a holiday booking

Don't know what to do now... as i won't be there.
Breaks my heart to think i did all i could to get him to Uni rather than Borstal, gave him cash/books/laptop etc when he needed it, and I won't get to see the end result, graduation.

Kids really kick where it hurts the most don't they.

I realise now he is being very selfish.. but it still hurts.

I've tried contacting him, and I've tried not contacting him... any other ideas anyone, or should I just give up?
:(

dont do anything at the moment. Get on with your life. He will regret if if suddenly you arent here anymore but thats his problem to deal with.

I have problems with my own son at the moment. I know how you feel. Sick to death of family in general but enjoy life with my partner who is lovely.

Gigglepig

Minxz wrote: »

No, I don't think he blames me for his dad.. he used to shout that i was useless and thats why he left me.. but deep down he knows that's not true, as his dad became violent , and when he went for the kids one day i threw him out..I darn't even think what their life would have been like if I'd let himn stay.

He was always loved, and had pretty good self confidence, I knew deep down sometimes he was insecure, and i always tried reassuring him I loved him, even when he was at his worst, I always told him I loved him.. and he used to say it back too on the phone from Uni..
Yes, I'm no perfect parent, and have made mistakes, but he's not had an awful childhood, far from it.
He blames me for us being 'poor'... we wern't poor, but I was a single mum, worked, but not a huge amount left for luxuries. he thinks I'm a 'loser' because we lived in a council house and 'he deserved better'.. he said that if I had been a proper parent and bought a house, therefore ina better area, he would have gone to a better school, got better grades, and wouldn't be the skint one at Uni.. and get his rent etc paid like the others.:undecided

I doubt he'd even consider it

It sounds really hard for you.
Hopefully it is just a phase and he will appreciate his family more in the future. Perhaps he is trying to keep up the joneses at uni, and wants to distance himself from having grown up in a council house
Lots of people go through phases in their teens/early twenties when they are embarassed about their parents and/or really do not want to become like their parents, but many eventually grow up and see things in a different light and start to appreciate everything their parents have done for them once they get more life experience.

poppy10_2

Minxz wrote: »

even when he was at his worst, I always told him I loved him..
he thinks I'm a 'loser' because we lived in a council house and 'he deserved better'.. he said that if I had been a proper parent and bought a house, therefore ina better area, he would have gone to a better school, got better grades, and wouldn't be the skint one at Uni.. and get his rent etc paid like the others.:undecided

To be honest he sounds like a spoilt brat. But you do have to take some responsibility for this yourself, hard as this may be. Even when he was at his worst, a drunk abusive chav in your own words, you were still praising him and throwing money at him. Even now, after everything that has happened, you were still planning on giving him a grand and sending him on a free holiday. No wonder he has such a sense of entitlement, he must think the world revolves around him, that's the message you've always sent him.

Did you ever try disciplining him?

blue_monkey_2

Minxz wrote: »

He's not on drugs or an alcoholic.. I don't have my head in the clouds where he's concerned, but I do know that.
To be honest, it'd be easier to explain his behaviour if he was.

Can I ask how you know if you've not seen him for months....?

If YOU cannot get past this then you need to go and see your doctor and ask for an appointment for some counselling.

He is an adult now, you cannot tell him who to talk to, who to be friends with, what time to come home, etc.... This has to be be his path. He will learn. Eventually. But he will have to make some mistakes first. He thinks he is punishing you for not giving him any money. We let him find out the hard way. Let him cream off someone else, when that well runs dry he'll no doubt be back asking forgiveness and will have his hand out within a few weeks for £5 here, £10 there and so it will go on. But don't give him anything.

I made that mistake with a close family member who cut me off in the same way your son did - I had children and could not do so much for them or give them so much in presents so they suddenly didn't want to know. One day however, they wanted to meet up so we went for a meal (I paid) and then it was the birthday and Xmas.... next thing I'd been 'discarded again'. It was horrible and hurt a lot - but they latched onto another childless/had more money family member instead and would go and see them on the sly and stuff like that. They only came back for money, when their birthday and Xmas was past they were off again and did not want to know me and I was left upset. And the other family memeber - got married and did not have so much money and was then 'dumped' in the same way. And then they latched onto another.... can you see where this is going?

Do not make the same mistake as I was in exactly the same situation as you are right now. I'd not be giving him anything for a good year when he comes back and so you can see his intentions. And as for me - does it still hurt I was treated that way? Absolutely yes but life moves on. I have my children that need my time and I now have dogs that I'd give more time and money to! Do I miss them? Yes of course, but not as much as I did as it's been a few years now, I give them a passing thought every now and then but they are an adult now and have t make their own choices and pay for their own way through life - they are the ones missing out. Not us.

At the time it felt like I'd hurt forever but it does pass. if you are finding it difficult to move on then you need help from a counsellor. You have other children, you cannot get depreesed because THEY need you. Your selfish elder son, doesn't.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Minxz wrote: »

He's not on drugs or an alcoholic.. I don't have my head in the clouds where he's concerned, but I do know that.
To be honest, it'd be easier to explain his behaviour if he was.

How do you know? Have you done blood tests? Were you there when he demanded money from you?


I'm sorry if this sounds too harsh. But after years in contact with substance abusers, I still find some that are so 'smart' that it is hard to be certain, even when you see them every day. Smell of alcohol on the breath - mask it with 3 cans of Red Bull. Smell of alcohol through the skin - lots of Lynx. Drink vodka instead.

Using smack, smoking it - no tracks. Using smack, injecting it - use between the fingers or toes instead of veins in the arms. Using smack, worried about seeming sedated - speedball it with some coke. Going to see grandparents because money is running out - just do enough in the morning to keep from clucking, get the food and money, then off to the dealer for a happy sunday afternoon.

How's his teeth? White and gleaming, or dingy black/grey tinted?

Does he 'have a cold' a lot, so keeps sniffing?

Any nicotine stains on his fingers? Does he put a roach in a rolled cigarette? Does he use standard green papers, or does he use large blue Rizla, rips or stick together/tear some papers in half? Ever lost a roll of kitchen foil or find loads of teaspoons in his bedroom?

Does he demand money for no apparent reason, get defensive and aggressive when an innocuous question is asked? Does he catastrophise everything - nothing is ever an irritation, it's always a complete disaster, everything is ruined? Does he refuse to accept any culpability for his mistakes and always blames someone else for everything he does? Is everything never, ever, ever, his fault? Does he threaten, cajole, demand, bully, wheedle, shout, lash out when he doesn't get his own way?

Pretty much every addict on the planet can make themselves appear clean and sober at some point if it is to their advantage to do so. This includes staying off the stuff for a period of time, as people fall for it more easily and it legitimises their behaviour more ('I can go days/weeks/months without drinking/shooting up, so that proves that there isn't a problem'). Being sober for just long enough to get a couple of A Levels (and to get alcohol legally) is by no means proof that he isn't and hasn't been using any number of substances or that he didn't go straight back on them as soon as it became easier to do so, such as not living at your house, so no danger of being picked up from the street corners anymore.

Of course, if it's spliffs all the time, he could be developing cannabinoid induced psychosis. Or he could be in the earlier stages of schizophrenia.


Or, OP, he could just be a deeply unpleasant idiot - like his father - and knows exactly how to behave to get what he wants as he learned from him in the first place. In which case, I hope he doesn't get some poor girl pregnant as he'll probably treat them the same way your ex did you.

Newly_retired

You have done what you could. For your sake and for your partner's sake, you have to move on.
Leave this son to his own devices. Don't make any more contact.
I don't think your parents are entirely wrong in keeping their home open to him, but they are being hurtful to you.
Concentrate on the members of your family you do get on with. Concentrate on yourself, your job, your hobbies.
If he ever changes then you can reassess how you feel at that time and decide how to react. For now, let go.

Padstow

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

A lot of alcoholics and/or drug addicts are like this...they demonise people in order to justify their behaviours. 'I'm like this because my parents were too strict/didn't care/smothered me/left me to make mistakes/gave me everything/gave me nothing...blah blah blah' It absolves them of their responsibility for their decisions and puts obstacles in the way of getting better.

when they have rare moments of clarity, they may slip and let the parent know how they really feel, but all too soon, the abusive user is back, turning on the ones who have cared for them most, as they haven't been able to provide money. A previous history of drinking himself into hospital makes it more likely that he has now gone onto the partly legal trail of oblivion. The law is obviously less than important to him as well, as he was prepared to break the law when underage, so drugs are possible for that reason as well.

If I were a betting person, I would be prepared to put money on him asking for money because he either a) owed shedloads for spliff/Es/Colombian marching powder and wash s**tting a brick because he had these debts to settle before an enforcer bashed on the door or b) has spent every penny on beer/spliff/Es/Marching powder/Fags/Nasty cheap vodka and was beginning to shake, sweat and see flashing lights, so was desperate to get cash to stop withdrawal.

The grandparents are daft enough to fall for the 'I'm just tired/Mum is mean to me' as they are unlikely to link the adorable 3 old they see when they look at him with the aggressive drunk or pinned eye junkie putting on his best behaviour to wheedle the odd £40 to £80 out of them. I'd also be interested to know whether they have checked their valuables recently or whether they have disappeared without warning after his visits.

If he is an addict, then he will tear you, his sister, his brother, your parents, his girlfriends, everyone into little pieces just so long as he gets to make it all about poor little him. He will be charm itself to the more gullible family members who are prepared to overlook the most obvious things because they value seeing a half dead junkie zombie above all else. At the moment, you are the only one smart enough to stand firm and he doesn't like that one bit.

I am sorry but there is nothing you can do to help - if he is an addicted knobhead, then nothing will stop that until he decides that it isn't what he wants to do anymore.

You're being rather presumptious aren't you?
You have no idea whether this young man drinks or takes drugs. To suggest he may be stealing his grand-parents belongings is frankly bizarre.
You do seem to know all the "street" terms, I must say.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Padstow wrote: »

You're being rather presumptious aren't you?
You have no idea whether this young man drinks or takes drugs. To suggest he may be stealing his grand-parents belongings is frankly bizarre.
You do seem to know all the "street" terms, I must say.

I do, indeed. I can also give you the precise chemical structure of any number of substances, their half lives in the average human body, interactions with other substances, various means and methods of production, distribution and consumption. If it were relevant to you and not just that you haven't quite forgiven me for not being the person you thought I was in an earlier post, I could forward you a number of links to a great deal of research carried out upon these subjects.

And I know what addicts do to their families and friends, including the lengths they will go to in order to appear perfectly reasonable and hard done by.

And how much families will try their hardest not to notice the blindingly obvious.


The alternatives here are:

1. He's an addict. So could, conceivably, get better at some point in the future. But probably won't.

2. He's a user and is entering a psychotic episode. So could get better, sort of, with medical treatment, but will relapse each time he uses afterwards. It's kind of evens there - if he were to stop smoking and comply with psychiatric treatment, there's a good chance he will be a nicer person.

3. He's actually suffering from a schizoid affective disorder. Or some other kind of serious mental illness, unconnected to his previous need for unconsciousness - perhaps it was even a case of self medicating. Diagnosis and treatment would help to manage such a condition. He could be a nicer person as a result, but it's not guaranteed.

4. He's, plain and simple, a nasty person. This cannot and will not change.


Not a pleasant list of alternatives, but what else is there to suggest to the unfortunate OP, who has done all she can to ensure he grows up in a safe, secure home with everything she could give him?

Minxz

How do you know? Have you done blood tests? Were you there when he demanded money from you?

Thank you

He drinks, but like students do. uni nights etc, and the last time i saw him he hadn't been on one of those for a couple of months as he was working every night.. his goal is a 1st degree.. and as for the drugs, no.
It's easy to say how would you know.. but he's never stolen from me, or my parents, he may be behaving terribly, but he's not a theif or hiding crack marks etc... and doesn't have yellow teeth, hates smoking ( i smoke, so I know that) and isn't ill or always sniffing.
He has anger problems, and insecurity issues which i have tried my best with over the years, but he can't seem to remember any of the good times, even the fortnight before this happened we shared a dinner and I helped him move house ( and before you suggest I was spoiling him, I would imagine most parents would do this, as he has no car!)

I appreciate your advice, but please don't assume that just because he's turned nasty towards me he's on drugs.

It may look like I'm defending him, I'm not. Just there's enough to worry about without the implication he's almost in a cardboard box somewhere with a bottle of Gin & a spliff.