The Bankruptcy Club & Supporters Club

sandralovescats

Mike_St_Helens wrote:

Ive used them too.. They are very good.

Email this lady... Rachael.Dufton@insolvency.gsi.gov.uk

Glad you posted that because I cannot find an email address anywhere on the site!

I have sent an email to her now and, fingers crossed, she might be able to give me some help.

Will report back.

I know that the case is complicated and that every case is different, etc, but surely someone knows where I stand legally!

sandralovescats

The OR whom told me to email the official insolvency people said that I should not go bankrupt, that I should contact my debt management company and to get a proposition to my creditors for an IVA which will be paid in full on completion of my compensation - so no monthly payments to be made in between.

Sounds okay in principle but daft in reality - to me anyway. She is an OR so she must have seen this done before.

I can't see this working but I have emailed my debt management person to see what he thinks about this. The OR said that they (the DMC) might baulk at the idea of trying it simply because it is so complicated.

Then there are the thoughts that I will have those darned creditors phoning/writing to me for another two years, grrrrrr.

What do you think about the OR's idea?

rog2

sandralovescats wrote:

The OR whom told me to email the official insolvency people said that I should not go bankrupt, that I should contact my debt management company and to get a proposition to my creditors for an IVA which will be paid in full on completion of my compensation - so no monthly payments to be made in between.

Hi Sandra - I think that, in the ideal world, you have been given sensible advice, and it comes from someone far more qualified than me to give it.

However, and please don't take offence if I give you the same advice that you gave me, surely you can pursue these claims after you have been discharged from bankruptcy? Even if the claims were settled during your bankruptcy procedure then the balance of the claim, after all creditors had been paid, would be refunded to you, and I think I am correct in saying that you may ask for your bankruptcy to be annulled.
Perhaps you could discuss the proposal with CCCS or PAYPLAN, to see what they think about the possibilities of a DMP where creditors would receive nothing until your claims were settled. Are you 100% sure that these claims WILL be settled in your favour?
Sorry I can't be more help.

sarah_skint

ooer sandra - your confused lol sounds tooo complicated for me to comment on sorry.

with my gambling debts because it was online, my bank stements are pages of money pout to this casino, money out to another etc, i don't think i could hide anything or put them as general ones.

sarah_skint

sandra with regards to questions to ask the or

with gambling debts of over 50k, which is 3 loans and 1 cc, taking out a loan in july for consolidation, does the fact that it has all gone gambling mean I could face a jail sentence having lied/exagerated the truth to obtain the money to start with.

i shall put my computer as assets with a value of 150 - would he take it, hope not or i wouldn't be able to come on here!

sarah_skint

mike, no i am not going to hide anything its warts and all I did the crime I'll take whatever is thrown at me and move on. I have applied for one of those cashplus cards the prepay mastercard one, will the OR have any interest in it? No it is not for gambling :rotfl: etc, but i do use the internet to buy the odd things from boots when the big points deals are on.

sandralovescats

rog2 wrote:

Hi Sandra - I think that, in the ideal world, you have been given sensible advice, and it comes from someone far more qualified than me to give it.

However, and please don't take offence if I give you the same advice that you gave me, surely you can pursue these claims after you have been discharged from bankruptcy? Even if the claims were settled during your bankruptcy procedure then the balance of the claim, after all creditors had been paid, would be refunded to you, and I think I am correct in saying that you may ask for your bankruptcy to be annulled.
Perhaps you could discuss the proposal with CCCS or PAYPLAN, to see what they think about the possibilities of a DMP where creditors would receive nothing until your claims were settled. Are you 100% sure that these claims WILL be settled in your favour?
Sorry I can't be more help.

Thanks for that Rog2 - my thoughts exactly.
Yes these claims WILL be settled in my favour, the Solicitor has no doubt in his mind about that - it is being done as no-win, no-fee.

This is part of the original email I got from the OR last night:

This is if the claim is started PRIOR to my bankruptcy, or whilst undischarged -

"The claim will no longer be yours to pursue and will lie with the trustee (although the medical neglience resulting in disability will be held on constructive trust for you).

If it's the trustees that means that the trustee has to pursue it if anyone at all is going to (or you pay him to "buy it back").

The downside is that if the trustee pursues it then the costs of him doing so are in my view going to be huge. what generally happens with "long term" assets is that when they realise the trustee gets all the money settles all the debts and takes his costs and then returns any surplus to you. this will be a lot more than £52k.

Th "personal" element will remain yours and that won't be touched - but ti is still likely that because of Ord v Upton it will have to be the trustee who still takes the whole claim forward (unless it's assigned back to you). "


In the email to the lady at the Insolvency Helpline (email given to me Mike), I have asked her about BOTH starting the claiim "before" or "after" discharge. See what she thinks.

I have emailed my debt management company - who were brilliant with me - to see what the IP I had there thinks about all of this, and the possibility of doing a no-payments IVA as the OR suggests.

We shall see what happens next.

In the middle of all of this, given that I am stressed out to start with, all this is doing is giving me a headache. The problem is I can't think of anything else.

Will report back when I know something/anything.

Thanks for the input - a sensible view of things, as always!

rog2

sarah_skint wrote:

mike, no i am not going to hide anything its warts and all I did the crime I'll take whatever is thrown at me and move on. I have applied for one of those cashplus cards the prepay mastercard one, will the OR have any interest in it? No it is not for gambling :rotfl: etc, but i do use the internet to buy the odd things from boots when the big points deals are on.

I think you are right - just be open and answer the questions as honestly and fully as you can. I don't think the OR will be 'critical' of your reasons for br. Perhaps may ask if you ave knocked the gambling on the head, or have taken/considered counselling - but the OR is there to make sure that all relevant facts are known, so that you can proceed to the next stage.
I don't think they will be interested in a pre-paid 'credit' card (contradiction in terms really) unless you have a high balance - but you will need to declare it.

sandralovescats

sarah_skint wrote:

sandra with regards to questions to ask the or

with gambling debts of over 50k, which is 3 loans and 1 cc, taking out a loan in july for consolidation, does the fact that it has all gone gambling mean I could face a jail sentence having lied/exagerated the truth to obtain the money to start with.

i shall put my computer as assets with a value of 150 - would he take it, hope not or i wouldn't be able to come on here!

Will make a note of the questions!

This is on the insolvency service helpline Rog2 mentioned a couple of posts back -

362. Gambling
(1) The bankrupt is guilty of an offence if he has-

(a) in the 2 years before petition, materially contributed to, or increased the extent of, his insolvency by gambling or by rash and hazardous speculations, or

(b) in the initial period, lost any part of his property by gambling or by rash and hazardous speculations.

(2) In determining for the purposes of this section whether any speculations were rash and hazardous, the financial position of the bankrupt at the time when he entered into them shall be taken into consideration.


I don't think you will go to jail, but perhaps you will get a BRU which restricts your access to credit for longer.

I also think that your computer is safe too. The OR is interested in items that raise a lot of money.

sandralovescats

rog2 wrote:

I think you are right - just be open and answer the questions as honestly and fully as you can. I don't think the OR will be 'critical' of your reasons for br. Perhaps may ask if you ave knocked the gambling on the head, or have taken/considered counselling - but the OR is there to make sure that all relevant facts are known, so that you can proceed to the next stage.
I don't think they will be interested in a pre-paid 'credit' card (contradiction in terms really) unless you have a high balance - but you will need to declare it.

Apparently you don't declare the prepaid cards because they are not bank accounts and they are not credit cards - so you are allowed to have them anyway. I am not going to declare mine, either.

The information came about someone who was undischarged and was given £500 cash for her birthday and she didn't have a savings account, didn't dare put it into the account the OR had access to. The reply was to put it into her prepaid card. Further info was that if she had gone out and spent the money on a new coat, new boots, a handbag and some perfume, nobody would ever have known about the money in the first place.

Hope this helps!