MSE News: Wheel clamping to be banned on private land

liam8282

It may be rare to have people parking in drives etc. But it is not rare for people to park on private land, such as private car parks, without permission.

I could look out of a window and see at least 6 cars doing just that right now.

All that banning clamping has done, has remove the one effective deterrent which stopped people from doing this.

If this thread really is a discussion about banning clamping, it would include the causes of clamping, ie people parking without permission, the consequences clamping & the banning of, and the solution or ideas for one, which has not really been discussed.

Clamping is going to be banned, ok, we all know that. People hate clampers, ok, we all know that.

But the problem of people parking without permission still exists, and personally I think something should be brought in as a solution to that problem.

Be that a change in the law to give private land owners the same power as public land owners, or just to make it a legal offence to park without permission, fair enough.

But to remove a viable solution, such as clamping, and replace it with nothing, in my eyes is wrong, and will ultimately lead to other problems. Be that an increased work load for local councils, or the police, with the numerous call outs they are surely going to start to receive.

At the end of the day, if somebody owns a possession they should have the right to say how and by whom it used, same goes for people squatting in houses, more extreme yes, but still very similar.

I think most people on here will agree that if clamping had of been strictly regulated, maximum fees, strict guidelines etc, it would have worked, no matter how much you hate clampers.

And no matter how much you say it, clamping will still exist, but only in the public format, local councils etc. People will still be clamped for parking on public land without permission, so why is it so different to expect the same on private land?

People bark on about Drs & Nurses on call, of course I agree it is wrong to clamp them, but if they were on call and had to park in a public car park, they would still have to pay? So again, I fail to see the difference between the private and public land owners. It just seems to be one rule for one, a different for the other.

Coblcris

Bertie_Wooster wrote: »

Just came across this letter from CP Plus on the Guardian website:

Parking restrictions must be enforceable

The Guardian, Friday 20 August 2010

The proposal to ban wheel clamping and towing on private land has not been thought through. It is a landowner's right to decide who is and who is not allowed to park on their property. It is their prerogative to set the conditions of use of their car park.
These terms may include the issue of a parking charge notice (PCN) and/or the threat of clamping, which is used by many parking management companies to manage persistent offenders. Without this deterrent, there would be chaos.
Imagine your house is near a station, town centre or stadium. Under the new guidelines, there will be no way of dealing with someone parking on your drive or blocking you in. The only way to handle this would be to cite trespass and obtain a court order for the keeper to remove the vehicle. This could take months. If you touch the car, you could be liable for damaging private property.
The government has suggested that ticketing on private land will remain lawful when wheel clamping is banned. Thus if a driver does not abide by a car park's terms and conditions, a PCN can be issued. Currently, the only method of enforcing such regulations is by way of citing contract law. When a driver enters the site, the signs form the basis of the contract. As long as the signage is clear, a driver understands the risks of contravening the conditions of parking. However, contract law is surrounded by complexity and ambiguity, and PCNs are regularly ignored. Before clamping and towing on private land is banned, legislation should be changed to make PCNs in private car parks enforceable.

Grahame Rose
Director, CP Plus

Evidently all the advice from this forum and others about ignoring their 'invoices' must be getting to them!

Bertie

Their rush to feast on the carcasses of the clampers is quite distasteful is it not ?
As distasteful as it is predictable.

We have to wait for the proposed legislation and follow its progress through the House.
This feeding frenzy will be even more apparent there.

There is much law in the way of the ticketer's dream.

Scotland manages very well with no private clampers and the courts there have not been inundated with cases following the dreamt of 'chaos' that it is purported will follow the demise of private clamping in the rest of the UK.

QED,

liam8282

Coblcris

As much as I agree with certain points on what G Rose says about having "something" enforceable, I do not agree it should solely be parking tickets (PCN).

Even if the local council could be called to move the vehicle, or the police / traffic warden could be called to issue a "proper" ticket, then fair enough.

After all, nobody on this thread seems to have any problems with the police, councils or traffic wardens imposing parking penalties.

ripped_off_driver

liam8282 wrote: »

Banning has been banned, ok, we all know that.

Oh I do hope not, I was hoping to get in a spot of banning later today.

This thread has ground to a rather predictable pointless halt. Both sides know the others' arguments and do not agree with them. It does not change the reality of what is happening.

liam8282

ripped_off_driver wrote: »

It does not change the reality of what is happening.

What is that....

all of the motorists who detested clamping so much, who have all been living in exile in Scotland for the past 20 years, are suddenly going to come surging back South to live in England because they can park where they like for free again?

Sorry.... couldn't help myself.

liam8282

I have just thought of a brilliant idea for a new thread, taking the basic principles from this thread and letting everybody else know that it is now free to park on private land!

I am not sure what angle to take it from, the commuter who does not want to pay for station parking, "don't worry, just find a local firm with a small car park and leave your car there for free!!",

Or maybe, the shopper who does not want to pay for parking in the pay and display car parks, "don't worry, just find a local firm with a small car park and leave your car there for free!!"

If there is a sign, simply pretend you didn't see it. If somebody asks you not to park there, advise them it is a civil matter, and as you will only be 10 mins at the shop it doesn't matter that you are being asked not to park there. The get out clauses are wide and varied, pick one whichever one chooses your fancy.

If all else fails, kindly tell them all about Scotland and it's parking laws, finish your tale with "no problem in Scotland, no problem here". If you ever have problems with people repeatedly asking you not to park on their land, you could even where face paints and do a dramatic speech, Mel Gibson style, as in Braveheart. That should sort the problem of the pesky land owner.

My only problem is, which board will this go in? Local Moneysaving, Freebies (no spend required) Board, or the Quick! Grabbit while you can.

Spartacus_Mills

Coblcris wrote: »

Their rush to feast on the carcasses of the clampers is quite distasteful is it not ?
As distasteful as it is predictable.

We have to wait for the proposed legislation and follow its progress through the House.
This feeding frenzy will be even more apparent there.

There is much law in the way of the ticketer's dream.

Scotland manages very well with no private clampers and the courts there have not been inundated with cases following the dreamt of 'chaos' that it is purported will follow the demise of private clamping in the rest of the UK.

QED,

Mr Rose whines about the legality of his tickets, however I was surprised to see Mr Rose not mentioning his scum operatives already clamping people for not paying their scam Parking Charge Notices although it is a criminal offence to do so.

Spartacus_Mills

liam8282 wrote: »

No good for the 24 hour access required though is it?

He could give the customers a key.

There is always a solution.

anewman

liam8282 wrote: »

But the problem of people parking without permission still exists, and personally I think something should be brought in as a solution to that problem.

Having an open car park is an invitation to park. Just like leaving your front door unlocked and propped open is an invitation for burglars (try claiming off contents insurance if you told them you left the front door unlocked, never-mind actually open). I therefore go back to the wonderful invention of the barrier, which actually prevents unauthorised parking.

You seem to purport that people park in an unauthorised manner in order to intentionally and maliciously cause some harm to the land owner, and I would dispute that this is the case. Yes there are some thick selfish people about but I doubt you will be able to change them to your way of thinking. That brings us nicely back again to that lovely invention the barrier.

lucylucky

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

Mr Rose whines about the legality of his tickets, however I was surprised to see Mr Rose not mentioning his scum operatives already clamping people for not paying their scam Parking Charge Notices although it is a criminal offence to do so.

Perhaps that was edited owing to reasons of space?:D