MSE News: Wheel clamping to be banned on private land

liam8282

janninew wrote: »

IMO the signs are not needed. My nearest Asda is in the middle on nowhere, I can't think of any reason why somebody would park there and leave their car all day (unless they were really slow shoppers!)

I was just being pedantic for the sake of it.

Companies like Asda probably just have standard car park signs, and it was just your local Asda's turn to get updated? Still a bit daft of them though.

bigturnip

liam8282 wrote: »

You are blocking access, as you are blocking the vehicle from exiting, so then it is the landowner that will be punished and the council could be called to remove the chain or barriers.

Does that mean next time I'm at my local shopping centre I can just demand they lift the barrier, I don't need to pay for the parking?

trisontana

bigturnip wrote: »

Does that mean next time I'm at my local shopping centre I can just demand they lift the barrier, I don't need to pay for the parking?

I think you are confusing the difference between paying to park a car (which nobody is disputing), and the extortionate penalties demanded by parking companies if you break one of their silly rules.

liam8282

bigturnip wrote: »

Does that mean next time I'm at my local shopping centre I can just demand they lift the barrier, I don't need to pay for the parking?

This is getting into something else now, and to be frank I can't be bothered discussing it, and I don't have the expertise to give a full enough answer. I am sure others on this thread will be able to provide one though, and most probably will.

Here is my interpretation of it anyway.

A place like a shopping centre will more than likely have the time and resources to put into a parking system.

Where as your average person who may have a handful of parking spaces won't.

It then falls back on the current contract laws, which other people have mentioned and taking these cases to court etc.

It would be much easier for a multi million, or even billion pound company such as asda to deal with problems like parking, rather than the local newsagent who earns £30k a year.

Your local shopping centre will have a "top of the range" car park, all singing and dancing, signs with pricing, fencing, barriers, ticket machines, security cameras, analysed costing of the spaces...... A person who tries to beat this system is going to fail.

On the other hand if you go into the shopping centre car park, you can in theory park wherever you like when you are in there (obviously as long as you are not causing an obstruction), disabled space, parent and child space, the worst that could happen is a dirty look.

Your local newsagent on the other hand, will have a piece of chain and a padlock. A person parks, gets locked in, police are called, then it is a civil matter, one persons word against another, and the chain is removed, the person is free to go.

I may obviously be missing a lot out here, but that is one simple attempt of an explanation.

bigturnip

trisontana wrote: »

I think you are confusing the difference between paying to park a car (which nobody is disputing), and the extortionate penalties demanded by parking companies if you break one of their silly rules.

I'm sure the sign could be worded so the charge was for parking and not a penalty, parking charges are quite extortionate, especially the penalties when you've lost your ticket.

bigturnip

liam8282 wrote: »

This is getting into something else now, and to be frank I can't be bothered discussing it, and I don't have the expertise to give a full enough answer. I am sure others on this thread will be able to provide one though, and most probably will.

Here is my interpretation of it anyway.

A place like a shopping centre will more than likely have the time and resources to put into a parking system.

Where as your average person who may have a handful of parking spaces won't.

It then falls back on the current contract laws, which other people have mentioned and taking these cases to court etc.

It would be much easier for a multi million, or even billion pound company such as asda to deal with problems like parking, rather than the local newsagent who earns £30k a year.

Your local shopping centre will have a "top of the range" car park, all singing and dancing, signs with pricing, fencing, barriers, ticket machines, security cameras, analysed costing of the spaces...... A person who tries to beat this system is going to fail.

On the other hand if you go into the shopping centre car park, you can in theory park wherever you like when you are in there (obviously as long as you are not causing an obstruction), disabled space, parent and child space, the worst that could happen is a dirty look.

Your local newsagent on the other hand, will have a piece of chain and a padlock. A person parks, gets locked in, police are called, then it is a civil matter, one persons word against another, and the chain is removed, the person is free to go.

I may obviously be missing a lot out here, but that is one simple attempt of an explanation.

So what you are saying is it is okay for big business to lock people's cars in their car parks and get them to pay to leave, but not for a small business. I don't see what the difference is between an electronic barrier and a chain and padlock.

liam8282

bigturnip wrote: »

I'm sure the sign could be worded so the charge was for parking and not a penalty, parking charges are quite extortionate, especially the penalties when you've lost your ticket.

But you also then need to operate the parking spaces as a car park.

Having a system in place to take the fees for parking.......

I am not saying it won't work for some car parks, because it will.

& no doubt car parks that were free in the past, will change to pay & display car parks to stop people without permission parking.

bigturnip

liam8282 wrote: »

But you also then need to operate the parking spaces as a car park.

Having a system in place to take the fees for parking.......

I am not saying it won't work for some car parks, because it will.

& no doubt car parks that were free in the past, will change to pay & display car parks to stop people without permission parking.

But how would private pay and display car parks work? What is the deterrent for not paying?

liam8282

bigturnip wrote: »

So what you are saying is it is okay for big business to lock people's cars in their car parks and get them to pay to leave, but not for a small business. I don't see what the difference is between an electronic barrier and a chain and padlock.

No, because the large car parks are what you said they are, pay and display car parks.

It becomes enforceable by law at these car parks if you enter and accept the conditions of parking.

If everybody with even one parking space decides to turn there parking space into a pay and display car park, with a sign, somebody to take payment, security systems to monitor cars arriving leaving etc..... It's just not realistic.

I still think I am missing something obvious here though, but I am still quite sure somebody else will enlighten you further on this.

bigturnip

liam8282 wrote: »

No, because the large car parks are what you said they are, pay and display car parks.

It becomes enforceable by law at these car parks if you enter and accept the conditions of parking.

If everybody with even one parking space decides to turn there parking space into a pay and display car park, with a sign, somebody to take payment, security systems to monitor cars arriving leaving etc..... It's just not realistic.

I still think I am missing something obvious here though, but I am still quite sure somebody else will enlighten you further on this.

I'm not talking about Pay and Display car parks, those will obviously become free under this new law as there is no deterent to stop people not paying, I am talking about private car parks that charge you to exit, what is the difference between those and a small business putting a sign up saying "Parking free for customers of ABC, £50 charge for non-customers" and then putting a chain and padlock across until they've paid. Why is the big business allowed to get away with it, but the small business will apparently have a policeman turn up demanding the car will be released?

I am just trying to work out a way of deterring people from parking on private land under the new rules.