ive resigned from work

ariarnia

SarEl wrote: »

Two months ago he was on the threads again - check it out. He'd decided to becaome a student, and wanted to know if he could get a student loan. Not because he needed one (he lives off his parents - he says) but because he owes money on loans and he thought that maybe he could get a student loan (which won't be due to be paid off for years - in his words) for being a student, and then use it to pay off other debts he has. Now what is the word I am looking for? Begins with F. Taking money for one legitimate purpose, but using it for something else entirely. Oh yes - fraud. But maybe he hadn't had his "Road to Damascus" yet. Fair enough.

To be fair (and I haven't read the thread), as long as he is a full time student and doesn't lie on the application form he can use the student loan money for whatever he wants. Most students use at least a large portion of it as living expenses. If he's at home he'll get a reduced loan to represent this and his parental situation will be taken into account, money for fees seems to be commonly paid directly to the educatial body, but any excess is his to spend as he will. Not really Fraud in the details you give.

PS. please excuse spelling. got to go somewhere at 4.

Savvy_Sue

bendix wrote: »

Well, I'll put money on the table in a bet, if you like . . . .

(and I'll keep a keen eye on it in the meantime too . . . . ) ;-)

I don't bet! Look where it leads ...

SarEl

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

To be fair, SarEl put certain very clear conditions on the offer, because she's not in a position to know whether the OP is a reformed character or not. None of us are, not even the OP at this stage, IMO.

Isn't it funny how we live in a society that has turned doing good into an insult? The OP is a young man who has been incredibly stupid. He has made many bad choices and he can't get away from that fact. Which is what I have been telling him all along. It's a fact that he committed a theft, and I have said very clearly that it takes more than a few months to be certain of his being a refrmed character - not even he can know he is yet. Challenging his offending behaviour or attitude does not mean the same thing as writing him off. Otherwise he has no reason to change. If there is one thing that I have learned from my work with offenders, it is that you call it like it is, and no excuses - you do no good by letting excuses slip by you. But you also do no good by not being open to the possibility of change. I haven't changed my mind about anything I have said to the OP - but I am willing to let him have a chance (not even the benefit of the doubt, but a chance) to prove that he can be someone who does right instead of wrong.

bendix

SarEl wrote: »

Isn't it funny how we live in a society that has turned doing good into an insult? The OP is a young man who has been incredibly stupid. He has made many bad choices and he can't get away from that fact. Which is what I have been telling him all along. It's a fact that he committed a theft, and I have said very clearly that it takes more than a few months to be certain of his being a refrmed character - not even he can know he is yet. Challenging his offending behaviour or attitude does not mean the same thing as writing him off. Otherwise he has no reason to change. If there is one thing that I have learned from my work with offenders, it is that you call it like it is, and no excuses - you do no good by letting excuses slip by you. But you also do no good by not being open to the possibility of change. I haven't changed my mind about anything I have said to the OP - but I am willing to let him have a chance (not even the benefit of the doubt, but a chance) to prove that he can be someone who does right instead of wrong.

But you still think he's a thief and a liar, right (copyright SarEl, three pages back)?

On this 'giving him a chance', is your organisation subsidised by the government and you get paid to take these guys in and give them a chance from the goodness of your heart? Just curious.

SarEl

bendix wrote: »

But you still think he's a thief and a liar, right (copyright SarEl, three pages back)?

On this 'giving him a chance', is your organisation subsidised by the government and you get paid to take these guys in and give them a chance from the goodness of your heart? Just curious.

I think that I have made my position clear.

And not that it is any of your business how my company funds this, but we receive not a penny from the government or anyone else. Everything is paid for out of our own pockets. And you are not just curious. You simply can't believe that there are people who are willing to take risks for other people that they don't know. That says more about you than it says about me.

End of discussion - if you want to continue to pick holes and have a go at me for actually caring about the society I live in and trying to make it a better place, do it without my help.

bendix

SarEl wrote: »

I think that I have made my position clear.

And not that it is any of your business how my company funds this, but we receive not a penny from the government or anyone else. Everything is paid for out of our own pockets. And you are not just curious. You simply can't believe that there are people who are willing to take risks for other people that they don't know. That says more about you than it says about me.

End of discussion - if you want to continue to pick holes and have a go at me for actually caring about the society I live in and trying to make it a better place, do it without my help.

LOL . . you liberal do-gooders are so cute when you're mad.

I just find it extraordinary that in two or three posts you changed from being the most virulent critic of this guy (expressly calling him a thief and a liar) and even spending time searching his previous posts to expose him, and then you suddenly changed tack and are now offering him a job.

But, hey, who gives a toss. If it's your money, go for it.

I'm damned it I'd hire someone with criminal convictions.

SimIsOnTheUp

That is most uncalled for!

Especially considering that the chap is trying to sort himself out.

SarEl - I've reported your post as abusive to MSE.

Please try and be polite, and constructive.

Good manners are important, and there really is no need to be nasty to this chap.

Bigmacman - I wish you all the best in turning things around.

With your positive attitude, I'm sure that you will.

All the best,

Sim.

SarEl wrote: »

For your information, since December is a few months - 7 to be exact. You don't just get to do a crime like theft and get "let off" like you were some complete innocent a few months later. You chose to do the crime, you chose to lie to your new employers a few months later about why you left your previous job, and to continue to lie until you could no longer do so. I have no silver sppon, not least because so far you haven't demonstrated that you are not likely to steal it. You did the crime - so the penalty is that you now "do the time". You seem to be under the impression that the world owes you something - we don't. You come here a convicted criminal expecting us to bail you out because you lost your job due to your actions. You want to prove you are worth something - well stop being dishonest with everyone and expecting them to field your side. You are a thief. And a liar. And it takes more than seven months of "good deeds" to prove that you are anything else. Come back when you grow up.

SarEl

SimIsOnTheUp wrote: »

That is most uncalled for!

Especially considering that the chap is trying to sort himself out.

SarEl - I've reported your post as abusive to MSE.

Please try and be polite, and constructive.

Good manners are important, and there really is no need to be nasty to this chap.

Bigmacman - I wish you all the best in turning things around.

With your positive attitude, I'm sure that you will.

All the best,

Sim.

Don't be ridiculous. I suggest you read the entire thread instead of interpreting your view of a small section. You may not have agreed with this one section, you may not agree with anything I have said - but this is opinion and not abuse, and opinion is allowed. In fact there is plenty of it around here. Yours being one of them. It doesn't make you right. And for your information, since you obviously haven't read the post, this OP that I was so "abusive" towards has a standing job offer to come and work in my office next year which he is actively considering. So perhaps you should read the entire thread ?

SimIsOnTheUp

Hi SarEl,

I'd like to apologise.

I jumped the gun, and I was wrong.

This thread touched me, due to my own struggle with addiction as well as drink related convictions / employment issues, and so I probably wasn't being too objective!

By the way, your post as below, is without a doubt one of the best posts I've ever read on here.

I certainly wish you'd been representing me in Court all those years ago!

Have a good day.

Kind Regards,

Sim.

PS - Good on you for offering the guy a job.

PPS - I've emailed MSE asking them to withdraw my 'report' from earlier.

SarEl wrote: »

Oh - you think? Really? Wrong. Oh yes I have been a victim of crime. Sorry statement on these days - who hasn't? Despite that - if you were to give the Howard League (for Penal Reform) a ring and give them a few basic details you have garnered about me from this site - it will take them less than 3 minutes to work out who I am. The same goes for Prisoners Abroad. Add to that the fact that I am an indepndant inspector of prisons (including young offenders institutions and immigration detention centres) and I do this in my "spare time".

You may have noticed -not my area of law. This is a commitment over many years. Oh, should I add that each year my practice ( which is a small employer - less than 10 permanant employees) takes an offender (not an ex- offender) for a one year work experience (with pay) to give them a chance - how many legal practices do you think do that? How many do you think are prepared to have the argument with their professsional body to allow it?

So you want the truth? I have nothing at all against the vast majority of convicted criminals. And I will lay bets that I know a lot more than you do. Some of whom are serving life sentences and are actually really not very nice people - although that doesn't include all people serbving life sentences.

So what do I have against the OP. Here it is. Well for a start off, I did not pass any judgement him in my original post. He had lost his job due to his own dishonesty (fact) and his "incapacity to work" was a direct result of his own actions (fact). No opinon - fact. On this basis I could see no way that the benefits agency would see this as anything other than a "voluntary" unemployment (also fact). Because the OP did not like this, he chose to have a go at me for this opinion. He may not have liked it, but it was all fact.

And then some peope come along and think that because you say something hard (not harsh) then you don't understand.

So let's have a good look at our "reformed character". He was dismissed in December, I believe, for a sustained theft from his employer. The employer found out - so he didn't have a "Road to Damascus" and realise what he did wrong and own up - and sacked him for gross misconduct and the employer called the police in. But heh, he immediately had his Road to Damascus and realised that he was an addict , had done wrong, and needed to put his applecart in order. Great.

Only - a month later he is on this site trying to get advice on how to lie to potential new employers about what he "didn't do" by claiming that he may have been "travelling" for the odd five or six years! Check out his history - it's all in the threads! But ok, maybe his "Road to Damascus" was a little later than that.

Two months ago he was on the threads again - check it out. He'd decided to becaome a student, and wanted to know if he could get a student loan. Not because he needed one (he lives off his parents - he says) but because he owes money on loans and he thought that maybe he could get a student loan (which won't be due to be paid off for years - in his words) for being a student, and then use it to pay off other debts he has. Now what is the word I am looking for? Begins with F. Taking money for one legitimate purpose, but using it for something else entirely. Oh yes - fraud. But maybe he hadn't had his "Road to Damascus" yet. Fair enough.

He was bloody lucky not to be sent to jail last Thursday. I really wouldn't recommend jail. And I have been in more than the OP has and probably more than you have - although unlike you I do not make assumptions based on not a shred of evidence, so maybe that isn't true. But as I stated before - it takes more than a few months ( or a few days) to be "rehabilitated". The OP stole money from his previous employer and was only "found out" seven months ago, and since then he has on this site demonstrated a willingness to continue to be dishonest. Have you any idea how many people "do the right thing" like 'fess up after the event, and do some voluntary work, to avoid being held fully reponsible for what they have done - and then go on to do it again?

There are people on this site who have ended up out of work and unable to claim benefits - or narrowly getting benefits - due to dishonest employers. More who are getting close to that. They deserve sympathy. Have a look at someone like Boopops - sacked for gross misconduct on trumped up charges because she was off sick too long. Did she lie to potential employers - no. Did she have an easy time of it - no. Did she get a job and show what she was made of - yes. Do I expect something more of the OP than conveniently forgetting that he has continued to at least think about continuing to be dishonest (and in some instances has been dishonest) - well if he wants to be considered a "changed person", then yes I do. Do I expect to see this "changed person" for more than a few weeks - well yes, I do.

But unlike you, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. I have no idea why it was a daft and impossible suggestion to say that if you were so convinced, you should let him know what vacancies were going at your workplace. So here's the thing. Our curent "placement" has nine more months on contract with us. If the OP would like to PM me then at the end of that placement I will personally contact his probation officer and make an offer of 12 months work experience, on a fair wage, provided he has stayed out of trouble in the interim.

I will not guarantee that nobody is going to make reference to his "background", and I can positively guarantee that nobody will be accepting any excuses for it. And I can absolutely guarantee that nobody will be in the least bit ready to sit back and accept any further dishonesty. It won't be glamourous. It won't always be a bundle of laughs. And not a single excuse is will be accepted. But if the OP wants to take this up the offer is there, and not a single one of our "success stories" (and I admit - we have failures) has ever failed to go on to full and meaningful employment.

There's a lot of crap around aboit "rehabilitating" criminals. It's cute sitting around on the edges and telling people what they ant to hear, or "forgiving them" 15 years on. It is a damned sight harder doing it when you are taking risks - and the OP is a risk. He is living off "mummy and daddy", he'd prefer not to own up to what he has done unless he has to to, and he'd think about a "wide chance" if it pays him. Not even close.

SarEl

SimIsOnTheUp wrote: »

Hi SarEl,

I'd like to apologise.

I jumped the gun, and I was wrong.

This thread touched me, due to my own struggle with addiction as well as drink related convictions / employment issues, and so I probably wasn't being too objective!

By the way, your post as below, is without a doubt one of the best posts I've ever read on here.

I certainly wish you'd been representing me in Court all those years ago!

Have a good day.

Kind Regards,

Sim.

PS - Good on you for offering the guy a job.

PPS - I've emailed MSE asking them to withdraw my 'report' from earlier.

Fair enough. I wouldn't want to give the impression that I am a "go-gooder" as some people around here think there is something wrong with doing good But from the sounds of it, you will appreciate the pint that I have been making all along - nobody ever got helped out by tea and sympathy, and simply saying "oh, poor you" doesn't get people into a better place. Everyone is entitled to be stupid and to make a mistake, but there are consequences to that sometimes, and when there are, they have to be faced, not shoved under a stone and hidden. The first step to solving a problem is admitting it exists. The OP is on the way there, but it's early days and not going to be easy. I personally hope that he and you both make it - I wish the best to anyone who is truggling with such issues. But I also know that it is easier to slip back than it is to go forward, and reminders aren't cruel - they are good advice!