Im so sad

JodyBPM

LilacLouisa wrote: »

When did civilisation decide that women had children, but their partner could ask them to work full time as well, whether she wanted to or not?

QUOTE]

Men also have children, though, and their female partners expect them to work full time, whether they want to or not, in the vast majority of cases.

I only really have experience of my own dh, but I can say for him, that despite the fact that I carried the baby and gave birth, he is equally as much of a parent as I am, and has all the same feelings, emotions and attachments to our children as I do. He would die to protect them, in an instant, just as I would. If I was humanly possible for a man to carry a baby, I'm full sure he would have wanted to do one pregnancy and me the other!

So why would it be alright for me to expect HIM to work f/t regardless of his wishes, yet wrong if he expected EXACTLY THE SAME of me? The only difference is gender - not feelings, emotions, attachment etc.

Truely, I think that society is wrong, and indeed very backwards, in thinking that the women has "rights" to be a SAHM if they choose. We won't achieve true equality until women realise that they need to forgo their exclusivity on their priviledges if they want to equally enjoy the priviledges offered to men. As I said in a previous post, parents have reponsibilites to their children, and as long as those reponsibilites are met, it doesn't matter which parts each gender supplies. It's about doing what is best for the children, not what is preferable for the parent, surely?

gravitytolls

Fang wrote: »

Why does the mother have more of a 'right' to spend time with their baby?

I may be wrong, but the way I read it, father wasn't suggesting she work F/T and he stay home, but they both work full time and babe goes to childcare.

Personal opinion time ~ DH would be bored stiff within a month of being home with baby, I would worry myself stupid being away for long periods.

LilacLouisa

JodyBPM wrote: »

LilacLouisa wrote: »

When did civilisation decide that women had children, but their partner could ask them to work full time as well, whether she wanted to or not?

QUOTE]

Men also have children, though, and their female partners expect them to work full time, whether they want to or not, in the vast majority of cases.

I only really have experience of my own dh, but I can say for him, that despite the fact that I carried the baby and gave birth, he is equally as much of a parent as I am, and has all the same feelings, emotions and attachments to our children as I do. He would die to protect them, in an instant, just as I would. If I was humanly possible for a man to carry a baby, I'm full sure he would have wanted to do one pregnancy and me the other!

So why would it be alright for me to expect HIM to work f/t regardless of his wishes, yet wrong if he expected EXACTLY THE SAME of me? The only difference is gender - not feelings, emotions, attachment etc.

Truely, I think that society is wrong, and indeed very backwards, in thinking that the women has "rights" to be a SAHM if they choose. We won't achieve true equality until women realise that they need to forgo their exclusivity on their priviledges if they want to equally enjoy the priviledges offered to men. As I said in a previous post, parents have reponsibilites to their children, and as long as those reponsibilites are met, it doesn't matter which parts each gender supplies. It's about doing what is best for the children, not what is preferable for the parent, surely?

Your post is interesting, and also provides another point of view, thanks.

Until nature changes her mind, or some brilliant scientist makes it possible for men to become pregnant and carry a baby to full term, we can never be equal.

Similarly, given our differences, it may be hard on men to be the sole provider for at least a while. I have already said on here how I admire men who work to
provide for their families.

It seems that some women who do go back to work
would like to stay at home with their babies

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1203295/Why-women-want-work-look-children.html

Your husband sounds like a great husband and dad, but I find he idea of a man wanting to give birth to a baby himself a bit too metrosexual for my taste, sorry.

You think that society is wrong and backwards? You had better try and have a word with nature. Men and women are different, and I regard it as privelege to be a woman, and I have always felt that the best for my children has to be looked after by me whilst they were babies. When I decided to bring in extra income I worked four evenings a week, enabling them to be looked after by their dad, and my mum and dad on oh`s darts night.



For me, my responsibilty to be there for my children never ends until I die.

JodyBPM

LilacLouisa wrote: »

JodyBPM wrote: »

Your post is interesting, and also provides another point of view, thanks.

Until nature changes her mind, or some brilliant scientist makes it possible for men to become pregnant and carry a baby to full term, we can never be equal.

Similarly, given our differences, it may be hard on men to be the sole provider for at least a while. I have already said on here how I admire men who work to
provide for their families.

It seems that some women who do go back to work
would like to stay at home with their babies

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1203295/Why-women-want-work-look-children.html

Your husband sounds like a great husband and dad, but I find he idea of a man wanting to give birth to a baby himself a bit too metrosexual for my taste, sorry.

You think that society is wrong and backwards? You had better try and have a word with nature. Men and women are different, and I regard it as privelege to be a woman, and I have always felt that the best for my children has to be looked after by me whilst they were babies. When I decided to bring in extra income I worked four evenings a week, enabling them to be looked after by their dad, and my mum and dad on oh`s darts night.



For me, my responsibilty to be there for my children never ends until I die.

That's an interesting article, but I wonder how many men would work if they didn't need to financially, and were given the option to stay at home and look after the children?

I think my DH is, without a doubt, a great husband and father. I don't doubt at all that there are some men out there who would make lousy stay at home parents, and who don't feel the same way, but I'm sure there are many others like my DH who would love to be a SAHP, but its still really hard in society today. When we were looking at what to do with p/t work, childcare etc after ours were born, my employer welcomed the idea of me working P/T, yet his would not. Somehow it seems acceptable in the workplace for women to work p/t for a number of years, yet not for men? Its such a shame, because I think it would have been great if we could BOTH have worked P/T, sharing the childcare and the financial responsibilites!

Re DH carrying a child/giving birth if he could, I'm fairly sure he'd only want to do it once! LOL. I know that whole idea is a ridiculous one, but I'm just trying to emphasise that men can be involved, emotionally attached, loving parents, just as women can. In the same way that, sadly, some women can be bad parents. Gender doesn't make you naturally a good parent, your personality and attitude does.

pollyanna24

LilacLouisa wrote: »

I am not sure that women do have equality. From various surveys it seems that even when men and women work the same number of hours the woman will spend more time doing necessary chores while the men chill out.

Also, if a woman wants to do anything financially, men sometimes prefer to deal with another man rather than her!

I must admit I have never found this.

On top of working full time and doing the bulk of childcare after work and weekends (I'm slowing getting used to this - but may I can cope with it knowing it will all change when the next baby comes. By the way, I don't find any of this a chore, it's more that I resent him doing nothing while I am :rotfl:), I also do ALL the financial stuff in our house. He has no clue how much anything is, as long as he gets his "pocket money" and he seems perfectly happy with this.

Virgin is my name, gas/leccie in my name and they won't speak to him even though he is the one at home when they come calling.

I deal with renewing the mortgage, I ring up and renew his car insurance. Never had anyone treat me like a "little woman." Maybe cos I subsconsciously get narky if they do, no idea.

mikey72

LilacLouisa wrote: »

.....................................

One quote could not do you justice.
I thought I was a dinosaur.
I must defer to you, I have never seen such a more blatant, sexist, biased view, that could be straight from the middle ages.

mikey72

JodyBPM wrote: »

LilacLouisa wrote: »

That's an interesting article, but I wonder how many men would work if they didn't need to financially, and were given the option to stay at home and look after the children?

I think my DH is, without a doubt, a great husband and father. I don't doubt at all that there are some men out there who would make lousy stay at home parents, and who don't feel the same way, but I'm sure there are many others like my DH who would love to be a SAHP, but its still really hard in society today. When we were looking at what to do with p/t work, childcare etc after ours were born, my employer welcomed the idea of me working P/T, yet his would not. Somehow it seems acceptable in the workplace for women to work p/t for a number of years, yet not for men? Its such a shame, because I think it would have been great if we could BOTH have worked P/T, sharing the childcare and the financial responsibilites!

Re DH carrying a child/giving birth if he could, I'm fairly sure he'd only want to do it once! LOL. I know that whole idea is a ridiculous one, but I'm just trying to emphasise that men can be involved, emotionally attached, loving parents, just as women can. In the same way that, sadly, some women can be bad parents. Gender doesn't make you naturally a good parent, your personality and attitude does.

Twice as many as women,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/oct/21/men-work-paternity-leave

LilacLouisa

JodyBPM wrote: »

LilacLouisa wrote: »

That's an interesting article, but I wonder how many men would work if they didn't need to financially, and were given the option to stay at home and look after the children?

I think my DH is, without a doubt, a great husband and father. I don't doubt at all that there are some men out there who would make lousy stay at home parents, and who don't feel the same way, but I'm sure there are many others like my DH who would love to be a SAHP, but its still really hard in society today. When we were looking at what to do with p/t work, childcare etc after ours were born, my employer welcomed the idea of me working P/T, yet his would not. Somehow it seems acceptable in the workplace for women to work p/t for a number of years, yet not for men? Its such a shame, because I think it would have been great if we could BOTH have worked P/T, sharing the childcare and the financial responsibilites!

Re DH carrying a child/giving birth if he could, I'm fairly sure he'd only want to do it once! LOL. I know that whole idea is a ridiculous one, but I'm just trying to emphasise that men can be involved, emotionally attached, loving parents, just as women can. In the same way that, sadly, some women can be bad parents. Gender doesn't make you naturally a good parent, your personality and attitude does.

If it works for you and you are all happy, that`s great. Perhaps employers will become more flexible.

People have always said if men gave birth there wouldn`t be a second baby from them - a way to control the population perhaps :-)

LilacLouisa

pollyanna24 wrote: »

[/B]

I must admit I have never found this.

On top of working full time and doing the bulk of childcare after work and weekends (I'm slowing getting used to this - but may I can cope with it knowing it will all change when the next baby comes. By the way, I don't find any of this a chore, it's more that I resent him doing nothing while I am :rotfl:), I also do ALL the financial stuff in our house. He has no clue how much anything is, as long as he gets his "pocket money" and he seems perfectly happy with this.

Virgin is my name, gas/leccie in my name and they won't speak to him even though he is the one at home when they come calling.

I deal with renewing the mortgage, I ring up and renew his car insurance. Never had anyone treat me like a "little woman." Maybe cos I subsconsciously get narky if they do, no idea.

I am glad you haven`t been ignored, simply because you are a woman, while the sexist estate agent speaks to the man with you (who has much less financial involvement)

I was outraged, but I didnt ask him to sell the house so it was his loss.

LilacLouisa

mikey72 wrote: »

One quote could not do you justice.
I thought I was a dinosaur.
I must defer to you, I have never seen such a more blatant, sexist, biased view, that could be straight from the middle ages.

I said that my view is old fashioned, but it is my view. Many men seem to have regressed from the males who are willing to care for their family, into permanent Peter Pans who want a mother figure and wife rolled into one. I find them pathetic.

There seems to be at least as many strongminded women who are coping with straitened circumstances and doing the best for their family as there ever was.

I like dinosaurs anyway, especially those who open doors and give up their seat for those more in need.