Told you I'd need help with this puppy.

sarabe

firefly80 wrote: »

She is so well behaved most of the time, but in the evening she just goes nuts will go from one thing to another, all the things she is not allowed to do with teath gnashing at us and jumping around like a bucking broncho! We have a coke can with some pennies in it and shake it after 3 nos of her doing the same thing - she even stops now when she sees the can come out. Cheapest and most effecitive thing we have got...but now cant drink coke in front of her without her going all worried she is gonna get in trouble!! DOH!

There are much better ways to teach a puppy what is expected of them than by using aversives.

Puppies use their teeth because they have no hands. Puppies get excited and want to play. Using a can of stones will lead to confusion and apprenhension as you have discovered by her attitude to you when you are simply drinking a can of coke.

Show her how to play and what she is allowed to bite. Invest some time now in teaching her to play tug or retrieve. Be very wary of punishing her attempts to engage with you.

If you were to take three hypothetical dogs and punish them for a small misdemeanour, one will learn not to engage in the unwanted behaviour and remain mostly unnaffected by the experience, one will become withdrawn and difficult to train because of the fear of getting something wrong and one will continue to engage in the behaviour so that you escalate the punishment to the point where it causes the dog to become defensive and use aggression right back at you.

foreign_correspondent

Agree with sarabe here - my brother tried the 'rattle bottle' thing on my dad's jack russell - it 'worked' for a bit, 'till the dog started trying to kill the bottle every time it came out... great thing to do if you want to make your dog scared of / reactive to normal everyday objects, quite often to be seen in the hands of passing small children....

twinklie

Belle didn't get out for a walk tonight because mummy spent the night in A & E. I burnt my hand pretty bad...silly accident and totally my own fault. Doh!

Anyway, my parents came round to puppy sit so she was ok. Apparently she just kept watching the front door waiting for me...bless her. A good nights sleep last night and her appetite has come back with a vengeance!

foreign_correspondent

I diont think sarabe said anything that was aimed at 'making you feel horrible' - she just explained the problems with using aversives, problems that many owners only realise when they become evident - she also gave some constructive advice about what to do instead...

sarabe

Thank you FC.

I certainly did not post with the intention of making you feel bad firefly merely to offer advice based on my experiences through working wth puppies and adult dogs that develop behaviour problems.

I just didn't want someone to read it and think that is was a good idea to use a rattle can.

Good luck with your puppy.

firefly80

Appologies Sarabe - I read your post when I was not in a great frame of mind (see below - sorry to take it out on you) and took it in the wrong tone. We have been trying to do the things you mentioned in your post (ie. teaching what is ok to chew and playing games) and 99% of the time she is great and really responds. I know some people who do treat their dogs badly sometimes to show them whos boss, and I hated feeling like you thought I was doing this when we put so much time and patience into positive reinforcement. I got the advice from someone who has some very nice dogs who had a similar issue when they were young - so thought it was good advice. I will rethink. Do you know of any positive distractions for your work? When she needs to let off steam it is not directed at us - in fact us, toys and games seem to not be on her radar - she gnashes at the air, bucks and runs circles. Then goes for things like plaster on the corners of the wall, bricks, skirting boards and the fire surround. When we stop her from one she just moves onto the next. I know she is just letting off steam and i am frustrated for her that we are a little restricted at the moment, luckily she is still young and wears herself out quickly - but any sudden noise - someone phoning or the oven timer going off and she snaps out of it and then plays nicely. Im so confussed! The reason I am worried is the puppy of a good friend did some serious damage to her hind leg on a similar mad dash, plus all this advice on jumping etc. on young joints.

Twinklie -so sorry to hear about the hand, I hope it is not too serious!
Reason for my bad frame of mind this morning - whacked my toes coming in the back door, thought I had broken a few toes. Luckily just very bruised and battered. But was on my own, one cat would not come inside last night and this set Lottie off when I tried calling him in. She would not settle most of the night and there were a few wee trips (just in case) and then in the early hours of the morning one of the cats threw up on the bed - sheet and duvet cover needed changing. Lottie up - finally quiet - and she squats before she even gets near the door, something she has never done. I think she can sense I am a little down today as she has been lovely since, has even been going to the back door to ask for wee and is again having puppy dreams at my feet. I wonder what she is dreaming of .

sarabe

firefly80 wrote: »

Appologies Sarabe - I read your post when I was not in a great frame of mind (see below - sorry to take it out on you) and took it in the wrong tone. We have been trying to do the things you mentioned in your post (ie. teaching what is ok to chew and playing games) and 99% of the time she is great and really responds. I know some people who do treat their dogs badly sometimes to show them whos boss, and I hated feeling like you thought I was doing this when we put so much time and patience into positive reinforcement. I got the advice from someone who has some very nice dogs who had a similar issue when they were young - so thought it was good advice. I will rethink. Do you know of any positive distractions for your work? When she needs to let off steam it is not directed at us - in fact us, toys and games seem to not be on her radar - she gnashes at the air, bucks and runs circles. Then goes for things like plaster on the corners of the wall, bricks, skirting boards and the fire surround. When we stop her from one she just moves onto the next. I know she is just letting off steam and i am frustrated for her that we are a little restricted at the moment, luckily she is still young and wears herself out quickly - but any sudden noise - someone phoning or the oven timer going off and she snaps out of it and then plays nicely. Im so confussed! The reason I am worried is the puppy of a good friend did some serious damage to her hind leg on a similar mad dash, plus all this advice on jumping etc. on young joints.

It is quite normal for puppies to get the 'zoomies' and it usually happens in the evening. Often this is because all the family are together and it's quite an exciting time as compared to being at home with just one person when the others are at work or school.

What you feed her will effect her energy levels. Most of the popular dogs foods contain additives, sugars and salts and e numbers and again the evening is when these will have the most effect if the pup has consumed three meals during the day.

It is a shame that you cannot take her in the garden. Do you mind me asking how you are managing the housetraining? And are you all disinfecting your shoes when you come in from the garden?

When she gets the zoomies just take a rope ragger or an old towel, attach some string or rope so that you can run away with the toy bobbing along the floor and encourage her to chase grab and bite. After a brief game of tug let her have the toy and then run away and grab a second identical toy, make it more exciting than hers and go again.

Not only are you giving her an outlet for all of her excess energy but you are teaching how much fun you are to be with.

Ideally this needs to be done outside so that you create an excited dog when you are out and a calm dog in the house so as soon as you can go out quiet games only indoors.

This will stand you in great stead when you go to the park and let her off lead.

In this house we have a golden rule. Puppies under 6 months are given only positive experiences. No punishment, no "NO's" no getting cross whatsoever. Then by the time they are 6 months old it is rarely, if ever, necessary.

twinklie

Awww...glad things have been cleared up on here. I was a bit afraid when I first started reading that we'd had a massive fall out. Well, Belle went on her first trip down to Wales this weekend. She was a STAR in the car, slept most of the way and came out for walks during little pit stops and went to the loo like a good little girl. She had a little moan when we first put her to bed, but it only lasted 5 minutes if that. I was expecting far worse to be honest because she was in a strange place (even though we did bring her bits and bobs with us). Anyway, only one indoor accident all weekend and that was our fault because we'd fallen asleep on the sofa so she couldn't tell us she wanted to go out.

We've been on lots of little walks and she seems to really enjoy it. Having to stop her running too much though - she'd run everywhere if we let her. We also took her into Pets at Home. Unfortunately though as we got out of the car, some people came trotting over to stroke her, 2 big dogs came to get into the car next to ours and the mountain rescue helicopter came over (very low) all at the same time. Great timing. I thought she was going to have a heart attack. Anyway she got that stressed that she pretty much threw up as soon as we got inside. Bless her.

Anyway, after that she was ok. We had quite a few people fuss her...she started off very unsure and then ended up loving all the fuss. We didn't meet any nice dogs, in fact they were all miserable and very aggressive. Boo. But she took it all in her stride. We also went to Tesco's. Whilst my DH went in we patrolled the car park. Followed the men that collect the trolleys....then spent about 20 minutes getting closer and closer to the entrance. By the end we were sat right in the hussle and bussle of it all and had a snooze because people are apparently quite boring! I figured that was a success!

She was a bit more fuzzy on the way home from Wales, but I figure that's because she was hungry. She didn't eat her tea and by the time she wanted it I'd put it away because i didn't want her eating just before we travelled. Anyway, I think she's slowly becoming bomb proof. Although, she's really confused by sheep. I think she thinks they are walking rocks! Ha ha.

Torndao01

I agree, glad that everything is sorted out. We've also started walking Boris now and hes doing fine, carrying him around before has helped I think. Took him to drop the kids off at school this morning so that ment lots of fuss from loads of kids, he lapped it up:) Also met a couple of dogs who were very nice so again good experience. We've had a blip at bed time, been waking up at 4ish and having to be very firm to get him to settle down again, also has gone slightly backwards on the house training. A few wee's and a poo inside even when the door was open:( Gone back to big praising for going outside, hope this works.

Crisp_£_note

Not read through the whole post, but have you tried using a ticking clock ? An old alarm clock will do (so long as the allarm is deactivated)? Apparantly the sound mimics the rhythm of the mothers heart and soothes the pup. For an older dog or rehoming a rescue dog try using an old t-shirt, blanket or towel that you have used until it smells strongly like you, do not wash it until its unhygeinic though! This is a reasuring effect for the dog and lessens the stress of separation anxiety. Our dogs both have small flece doggy blankies! They wander round with them like 'Linus' in the Snoopy cartoon.

Its also a good idea to use a towel or fleece blanket for when you are away from home. Teach the dog to treat it like its bed so when for example you are at a friends house or somewhere you dont want the dog to stray too far it has a designated 'stay' spot or 'bed' to sleep wherever you lay the towel / blanket. Its easily portable and freezable in summer to keep dogs cool!

Not sure if these have been already suggested before or even if that helps. Worked for us though.