Oh no!!!!!!

alanbluecat

patchwork_cat wrote: »

You are a pedant - there is accepting and there is just downright unpleasant and too many (is that better) people are talking about overweight people as if they have no feelings and are less than animals - shame on you. What is the difference between a disease and a condition - pointless debate.

A condition can be self-inflicted, a disease can't?

I say this as a fatty who ate too much, too much of the wrong things and didn't move enough. I'm slowly changing this but don't consider myself to have a disease.
To those that think obesity is a disease - if I lose a few stones and get to a normal weight, is my disease cured? If I put on weight again have I contracted the disease again?

You are right though, it's a pointless debate here and not what the OP was posting about.
She has a real problem that I wouldn't like and shouldn't be having to replace sofas after people visit.

chopsticks

cherub1965 wrote: »

how about a stick with a moist sponge on the end? retractable? i might just invent that and copyright it,lol:D

Too late...check out "comfort wipe" on Amazon US. Not quite the same as your suggestion, but very similar.

princessleah_ wrote: »

To all those having a go at the OP for being "fattist"

Would you be happy allowing three people with a combined weight of seventy stone sit on your brand new, much longed for sofa?

I wouldn't. Even more so if they had been the cause of the previous one breaking.

The OP has only asked for a reason that she could give for these people to not sit on her sofa without offending them. Im sure she doesn't really care whether or not they lose weight as she had tried to help and not gotten anywhere. Whether there weight gain has a reason from depression, phsychological problems or whatever it still doesn't change the fact that the OP doesn't want her furniture damaged!

I completely agree with the bit in bold. The relatives are at risk of damaging someone's possessions. If someone had trodden in dog poo, I would ask them to remove their shoes before coming into my house as they are at risk of damaging my carpet. It just so happens that it's their weight that's causing the risk rather than them having trodden in dog poo/.

OP, I hope everything works out OK.

patchwork_cat

You are arguing what is a disease and whay is a condition and I for one would be very surprised if you were qualified to conduct this argument.

Obesity can be caused by - underactive thyroid and PCOS to name just 2 conditions with obesity as a side effect.There are a myriad of others -not least of all depression, which can result in significant weight gain as a side effect as well. You may have been fat through self indulgence, but plenty of others aren't.

Adult obesity can follow childhood trauma, just like alcholism, drug use and suicide.Look into ACE scores and then comment again.

nursenancy

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Obesity/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Some information about obesity.
But does arguing about the causes of obesity answer the question in the original post?!

alanbluecat

patchwork_cat wrote: »

You are arguing what is a disease and whay is a condition and I for one would be very surprised if you were qualified to conduct this argument.

Obesity can be caused by - underactive thyroid and PCOS to name just 2 conditions with obesity as a side effect.There are a myriad of others -not least of all depression, which can result in significant weight gain as a side effect as well. You may have been fat through self indulgence, but plenty of others aren't.

Adult obesity can follow childhood trauma, just like alcholism, drug use and suicide.Look into ACE scores and then comment again.

I assume you are talking to me.
I am not arguing what is a disease and what is a condition. I was answering the question you posed earlier - 'what's the difference between a disease and a condition?'
I was giving an example of what one difference may be.

I am obese. My next questions in my previous post are quite valid then in light of people who say obesity is a disease. What is the answer to my question?

To be clear, I am not arguing if it's a disease or a condition, only asking those with the opinion that it is a disease to tell me where I fit.
It really confuses me. Several years ago I lost 5 stones to become a normal weight. Over time I put it all back on and more. For the record during this time when I put it on I was suffering from depression. I no longer have depression but kept getting bigger, and now I have decided to reverse the process and get back to 'normal' again.
I know depression is an illness, and I no longer have that now, so what about my obesity? Did I have a disease, cure the disease by losing weight, contract the disease again during my depression, go through the process of curing it again by losing weight now and if I put it on in the future will I contract the disease again?

There are medical conditions and probably genetic factors which contribute to obesity, but my opinion is that these are far fewer than people who simply enjoy eating, or eat too much, or too much of the wrong thing or who don't move enough to burn up the energy they consume.

But all this gets away from the OP's issue. Personally I think the best policy is honesty. I know I would want someone to tell me if I was the one who broke the sofa last time. It might not be easy but it will address the issue.

Mutter_2

patchwork_cat wrote: »

You are a pedant - there is accepting and there is just downright unpleasant and too many (is that better) people are talking about overweight people as if they have no feelings and are less than animals - shame on you. What is the difference between a disease and a condition - pointless debate.

So all those who don't fit in with your arbitary descion as to ideal weight are to be pariahs and 'feel uncomfortable' otherwise we might get more overweight people?

I am snorting with derision behind my hand. HAhaha!!! Posted.

patchwork_cat

My question re disease and condition was really rhetorical - a condition does not have to be self inflicted and to argue the disease/ condition ( which I was questioned about originally, ) is irrelevant and seems a pointless debate even though the article that I was responding to does debate this.

It would appear from what you state that you become obese as a side effect of another 'condition'. The problem with obesity is it is a complex entitity - there are the fat cells which never disappear once formed,then there are the other ways that obesity perputates itself, lose of fitness, changes to insulin resistance due to the fat, fatty liver (the liver is no longer a fat burning machine, but a fat storing one) etc.. This could become a thesis level document, but these are a few points.

The genetic factor is oft quoted as being an excuse, but is in fact a very real scientifically proven fact. Up until our very recent history ( evolution is a very long process) the ability to gain weight meant survival. We then get into complex genetics, but basically the likelihood of getting genes from both parents for weight gain is high and the longer that it is an advantage to gain weight the more succesful those that gain weight easily will be and mate to pass on the gene etc. So infact overweight people are gentically succesful!!

As to the OP's issue I feel if more compassion had been shown perhaps the debate would not have gone off at a tangent. Why not put a child on each settee, so the load is spread and if the settees break , complain to the manufacturer - I assume they have not stated a weight limit?

Mutter_2

I can well understand pukkamum being thoroughly !!!!ed off with this now. Both the outlaws and us.

Good luck PAM, let us know how it went.

alanbluecat

That's an interesting post patchwork. Food for thought (pun unintentional).

Good idea re the sofa too. Assuming a worst case scenario that the sofa was damaged, being that the sofa is only a week old there would be cause for complaint to the manufacturer. Even if the manufacturer stated a weight limit they would have no proof that an obese person used the sofa as OPs household appears to be 'normal' weight. Would the burden of proof be with the OP to prove that no fat people sat on it, or would it be with the manufacturer to prove that a fat person did?

Mutter_2

patchwork_cat wrote: »

My question re disease and condition was really rhetorical - a condition does not have to be self inflicted and to argue the disease/ condition ( which I was questioned about originally, ) is irrelevant and seems a pointless debate even though the article that I was responding to does debate this.

It would appear from what you state that you become obese as a side effect of another 'condition'. The problem with obesity is it is a complex entitity - there are the fat cells which never disappear once formed,then there are the other ways that obesity perputates itself, lose of fitness, changes to insulin resistance due to the fat, fatty liver (the liver is no longer a fat burning machine, but a fat storing one) etc.. This could become a thesis level document, but these are a few points.

The genetic factor is oft quoted as being an excuse, but is in fact a very real scientifically proven fact. Up until our very recent history ( evolution is a very long process) the ability to gain weight meant survival. We then get into complex genetics, but basically the likelihood of getting genes from both parents for weight gain is high and the longer that it is an advantage to gain weight the more succesful those that gain weight easily will be and mate to pass on the gene etc. So infact overweight people are gentically succesful!!

As to the OP's issue I feel if more compassion had been shown perhaps the debate would not have gone off at a tangent. Why not put a child on each settee, so the load is spread and if the settees break , complain to the manufacturer - I assume they have not stated a weight limit?

I was on thne second line and fell asleep through boredom. How boring and miserable is that?