God help me but I don't know what to do

troubledmummy

Hi and thanks to EVERYONE who has responded. I haven't been online this afternoon and I don't have time to respond properly now as I have to get on with dinner but later once my daughter is in bed I will have time to reply in more detail, but didn't want to read through everything quickly now and then just dash off

Bubby

Troubled Mummy - I don't have any practical advice but I wanted to applaud you for walking away from your ex and the domestic violence you suffered but at the same time offer my sympathy for the domestic violence you are suffering once again at the hands of your daughter:(

Perhaps somewhere along the line your daughter has found your weaknesses (and I don't mean this in a horrible way) and she has taken the role of your abuser? Perhaps you need to get help to find the strength to take back the role of the parent and the one "in charge". I can totally understand why over the years you have maybe not taken this role after everything you have suffered. huge (((hug)))

pukkamum

esmerelda98 wrote: »

I think you are TOTALLY wrong here. We are talking about a child of nine. If she is not aware her behaviour is seriously wrong then it needs to be pointed out to her EACH TIME this sort of behaviour occurs that it is unacceptable. The girl needs to unambiguously apologise for her behaviour and look like she means it (Mummy, I am sorry for not helping/kicking you/being difficult today) not suddenly switch from nightmare child to angel when it suits her and expect her mother's emotions to automatically change too. I agree that it would have been better to deal with the difficult behaviour on the day but I really believe she was so upset she could not have said anything helpful. Remember, she was practically suicidal, she could only have said nasty things to the child that night. Better to sleep on it. For me, anyway, things never seem quite as bad the following day.

i think you misunderstand i am all for her behaviour being pointed out to her but it needs to be done at the time of the incident not a day later.

How would you feel if you had words with someone felt it was resolved only to have the person the next day bring it up again and continue to be cross with you?

Yes i agree she was in a state and feeling suicidal but she is the adult and she has to be able to control her emotions otherwise how can she expect her child to.The very fact that this behaviour can instill these feelings in the OP really worries me.

I have every sympathy for the OP and i truly belieive she herself needs to seek some sort of counsellling for past events as does her daughter.

I hate to bang on but with the coin technique the behaviour is pointed out in a calm controlled way and is also revisited that night giving the child time to think and ponder.

Lets not forget sorry is the hardest word for some to say and to me her sweetness and light behaviour that evening was her way of apologising.

HopeAndDriftWood

Unfortunately, my sister was exactly like this, and is now 16. She was taken into foster care (finally!) at 15, but continously demanded to come home, and between 11 and 15 she physically attacked almost every member of my family, and also made some very serious allegations about others.
Social Services were never particularly interested, and after a formal appeal, all they could offer was a 'befriender' to talk to her and take her out once a week. This happened twice, until she attacked her befriender, and no one else would take her.

My advice? Take her to the doctor, and explain there. Calmly demand that she has the necessary tests to prove that she doesn't have any type of disorder, and that she is referred to a counsellor. The first few sessions will probably be family counselling, but if they see something wrong, they should be able to help. If they don't, take this report to Social Services, and discuss how you feel. Tell them exactly how it is, because if you sugar coat it, they'll brush it under the carpet. They will have seen it all before, trust me. See what they suggest. If you need time away, ask for help through the Carers respite scheme, which can be used for this purpose. If you think fostering is an option, discuss this with them too.

Please don't hide behind this, or behind embarrassment. My sister never got the help she needed, and despite me trying my best, she refused to sit her GCSEs. No one will foster her, she has a criminal record for assaults on strangers, and Social Services don't know what to do with her, so they pay for a B&B at a local town and she does nothing all day. She's no better then she was, as her criminal record will show, she is just better at hiding it. My case was muddied by having a violent mother and pretty much absent father, which Social Services used as a constant excuse, and me being so young at the start of the trouble and having other problems too meant I didn't push them to help as much as I should have, and wish I had.

You can PM me if you want to talk about it, I know what its like. Just remember that it isn't forever, and if you push hard enough, you'll find a solution which will mean you can enjoy being a mother, and she will have a much better life.

I hope this helps a little.

pinkshoes

Have you spoken to your daughter about her dad? I know that might be very hard for you, but perhaps it would help her, and be the cause of her anger/hostility/resentment? You could start by asking her if she remembers him? If she misses him?

You definitely need to get help for the two of you. There is nothing wrong with asking for help!

pandora205

Hi Troubled Mummy. Are you okay? You are obviously very stressed and exhausted. If you feel you are unable to cope telephone the duty help line of your local social services - probably called children's services - (open 24 hours a day for emergencies). Longer term some parenting support may be useful but in an emergency that isn't going to help immediately.

From your account, I think your daughter's early experiences are probably highly significant. I'm a psychologist and have worked with many children who have witnessed domestic violence in the past. For some this leads to significant behavioural issues, not least as they can be suffering from post traumatic stress. If this is the case, the child is hyper-vigilant and over-reacts to any threat (such as a harsh voice or frown), becomes fearful easily and can have nightmares and flashbacks. In my experience, many children do not tell their mothers (it is usually mothers) about the nightmares as they don't want to talk about it and know it will upset them. Of course it is not possible to say any of this applies to your daughter - but it sounds like a possibility.

A referral to your local CAMHS service via your GP would be appropriate. If the problems are also occurring at school, discuss getting advice from the educational psychologist with the SENCo. In the meantime, try to look after yourself: play some relaxing music, take a bath, get some sleep.

esmerelda98

pukkamum wrote: »

i think you misunderstand i am all for her behaviour being pointed out to her but it needs to be done at the time of the incident not a day later.

How would you feel if you had words with someone felt it was resolved only to have the person the next day bring it up again and continue to be cross with you?

Yes i agree she was in a state and feeling suicidal but she is the adult and she has to be able to control her emotions otherwise how can she expect her child to.The very fact that this behaviour can instill these feelings in the OP really worries me.

I have every sympathy for the OP and i truly belieive she herself needs to seek some sort of counsellling for past events as does her daughter.

I hate to bang on but with the coin technique the behaviour is pointed out in a calm controlled way and is also revisited that night giving the child time to think and ponder.

Lets not forget sorry is the hardest word for some to say and to me her sweetness and light behaviour that evening was her way of apologising.

All children can be naughty. Some are naughtier than others. The behaviour here just isn't on the normal scale of challenging behaviour. We are talking about either a seriously dysfunctional relationship or undiagnosed developmental issues or undiagnosed mental illness. The problematic behaviour is persistent and the mother sounds like she was at the end of her tether. I think she was seriously at risk of saying something like, 'I wish you had never been born', something really hurtful. In such a case it would be better to say little, just prepare for bed etc.

It is difficult to say sorry, yes, but sometimes nothing else will do. Being nice can only be appropriate for very minor transgressions, like hurting someone's feelings, without being deliberately nasty.

The point I was trying to make was that the episode had not been resolved. We are only talking about the following morning. I do agree that repeatedly bringing up individual episodes is not helpful, but still maintain each episode must be dealt with in a simple, firm manner, to bring home to the child that the behaviour is unacceptable, just in case the little girl is not quite clear about that. Okay, to change this behaviour will probably require much more than this, but this approach is an important part of any plan. Well, I think so, anyway.

troubledmummy

pukkamum wrote: »

i think you misunderstand i am all for her behaviour being pointed out to her but it needs to be done at the time of the incident not a day later.

How would you feel if you had words with someone felt it was resolved only to have the person the next day bring it up again and continue to be cross with you?

Yes i agree she was in a state and feeling suicidal but she is the adult and she has to be able to control her emotions otherwise how can she expect her child to.The very fact that this behaviour can instill these feelings in the OP really worries me.

I have every sympathy for the OP and i truly believe she herself needs to seek some sort of counsellling for past events as does her daughter.

I hate to bang on but with the coin technique the behaviour is pointed out in a calm controlled way and is also revisited that night giving the child time to think and ponder.

Lets not forget sorry is the hardest word for some to say and to me her sweetness and light behaviour that evening was her way of apologising.

Her behaviour was pointed out to her at the time. However this morning I was still feeling sick and distraught, she asked me if she was ok and I didn't know what to say, I felt too low to even try to lie convincingly. There is so much conflicting advice. I tried to appear strong and not show she was getting to me and she continued. I was asked if I told her how much she upset me when she behaved the way she did, because if she didn't know how much she upset people how would she know she was wrong. If she saw how her behaviour affected people she would see that is was unacceptable and people would not be happy with her.

So on the one hand I am told to tell my daughter that she makes me sad, on the other hand I am told not to show emotion. I don't cry in front of her. When we fled domestic violence I did break down in front of her, but you have no idea how hard I had to fight to get away.

It was just this once when things weren't resolved the same day because yesterday had such an effect on me I was still feeling at my wits end this morning.

But how dare you comment on how you think I should control my emotions??!! :mad: I have had this to some extent or another for the past six years. If I was getting punched, kicked and pinched by my partner and given death threats you would urge me to leave him. The fact that it is by my daughter should have no cumulative effect over six years whatsoever?! Does the fact that I have tried everything, to no avail, for six years mean nothing to you?! Nothing I have tried has worked, would you cope with being humiliated, shouted at, belittled on a daily basis for years on end and not reach breaking point? I love my daughter more than anything else in the world, when she is violent or throwing insults at me or just in a state that she works herself into it hurts me more than anything my ex used to do. I then control my emotions, nevertheless, and discipline her.

I signed up for parenting classes a couple of years ago but missed the start date so the organiser gave me some worksheets, however they contained nothing but strategies I had already tried.

I have tried talking to her about her dad but she refuses to speak about him, if I push it she gets upset and angry that I am not listening to her and respecting her wish not to discuss him. We don't know where he is, haven't heard from him since I split from him.

When I first split from her father I was very soft on her, feeling guilty for not being able to protect her and making excuses for her behaviour after everything she had witnessed.

I have taken her to the doctor, he referred us to the health visitor who referred us to the school nurse. After seeing the school nurse nothing much has happened. All I got was more advice for dealing with her behaviour, all of which I tried but gained no ground.

I phoned the Samaritans a few weeks ago, I did feel better after. I mentioned to my GP that I phoned the Samaritans and she gave me a questionnaire to see if I was depressed??!! It's already in my notes! She did say I could go in any morning and be seen straight away if I needed to talk and she chased up my referral for counselling to see where I was on the list, this was a month ago.

My daughter had to carry her artwork she had done in the museum, she didn't leave the house with a bag. If she had started to misbehave before going anywhere, we wouldn't have left the house! I am not scared of her, although I think she can pick up on me dreading her misbehaving.

When she starts to act up I always stand my ground, I never back down, I tell her what will happen if she continues to be naughty and then I follow through if need be.

She is doing very well at school, very enthusiastic and helpful and a real socialite of a bit of a bossy one. I think her issues are to do with me, we only got our first permanent home this year and she has witnessed and been through more than any child should ever have to go through. Maybe she feels I have never given her the fun childhood other kids have had, though it hasn't been bad, I've always made sure we've had fun and that she has never gone without, we just had to move around a lot.

I have always been there for her and fought to make things better.

Her behaviour was so extreme yesterday that more than ever before I wanted her to really know how unacceptable it was, acknowledge it instead of sweeping it under the carpet and forgetting about it. If it's so easily swept aside and forgotten what's to stop her thinking she can behave like that again because in a few hours it would be like it never happened.

If I do turn an angry reaction to laughter it makes her worse. She then lashes out and I just feel like I am taunting her. If someone laughed in my face when I was worked up I would be angry too. Though when she does her silly grunting noises I do laugh because I want her to know she sounds ridiculous, but it does make her more angry.

She witnessed her dad being nasty but also aswell my mum used to belittle me and undermine me to my daughter and I think that has helped cause her lack of respect for me. We have no contact with my mother now, I put a stop to it. That was hard as my daughter adored my mother and couldn't understand when she was younger why I tried to limit contact. Then my mother really overstepped the line on something and there was no going back, no way I could forgive her for what she had done and we haven't seen her since. Losing my mother out of her life really left my daughter confused and hurt. This was three years ago now.

We have an incredibly close relationship, we can finish each others sentences. People have commented on how solid we are, we are a real team, some people have said they have never seen such a close relationship. Maybe we are too close? We hang out, we play games, we cook dinner together. To the person who said all she needs is a relationship with her mum, what else do you suggest? She knows I am always available to talk to if she needs to speak about stuff, and she does talk to me about things, though not about her father or why she behaves the way she does. All she has said is that she can't control what she does sometimes.

I don't break down in tears or tell her she has pushed me to my limits, I just tell her that her behaviour makes me sad, but i don't tell her that often either. I do sometimes tell her that things have to change that I am not going to let things continue and that her behaviour has to change otherwise she's just going to get told off all the time

Sorry if this is all disjointed I am trying to respond to several different posters. I've checked for typos and grammatical errors, but there is a lot there. I didn't want anyone to feel ignored and I wanted to respond to important points.

Tonight has been tough. She helped me with dinner but then she said she felt like dessert and so she wanted to make one. We don't often have dessert and there wasn't time to make one tonight. She refused to get into the bath if she couldn't make dessert and wouldn't accept no for an answer. I told her I had given her my answer after telling her no three times and I wasn't going to discuss it any further. She then started pushing for a reaction getting more and more provocative. I stayed calm and told her if she didn't behave she would have to go up to her room, she continued so I told her to go upstairs. She refused to go even after I counted to three so I told her that I had warned her what would happen if she continued with her backchat and provovation. In the end I took her by the hand and made her go upstairs, but she threw herself on the floor so she ended up being dragged up by even then refusing to stand up and walk up herself.

I don't know what to do anymore, I am tired and fed up.

Indie_Kid

Can you ask for your daughter (via GP) to be referred to CAMHS? (Child & Adolescent Mental Health Service)

Britwife

Your a great mom and you are a survivor and will get through this. Sending loads of hugs hun. I am sorry if my words upset you at all. I'm so happy you guys have a great relationship. I wish I had some words that would help, but keep going. You obviously would never give up and have shown that.

Hugs