Big mistake on Carphone Warehouse chequeback

laurajayne

Not that I can help at all really....just a word about the CPW stores.

I'm an ex-branch manager for CPW - none of CPW's stores are franchised in the UK - not sure about 'Phone Shop' stores in Europe.

It is true that the new branch manager will be penalised should they raise a 'customer care voucher' for you (basically a cheque sent from HO), by loosing out on their bonus (and admittedly, it ain't the best paid job in the world lol).

I very much doubt that the could raise a voucher for that amount on their own anyway - I think they'd need Area Manager authorisation anyway....but generally a quick phone call would suffice (or, if that ASM is not covering on a partiular weekend, waiting til Monday - as generally easier to get auth from your own manager lol). They've already admitted it was wrong (unless I can't read properly) so this shouldn't be an issue.

I had to raise plently of CCV in my first few months as a Branch Manager, it kinda comes with the territory I guess....plus I'm probably too nice (the old BM still worked for CPW, and I could have got her to do them...just didn't like customers having to hang around while we fought it out).

Anyhoo...good luck (and I didn't tell you a thing! )

quidsinquentin

I've also put this on DT as it crosses a few areas. It's also a definite 'money saving issue'.

On Monday I went to see the manager of the CPW shop who gave me no joy at all. This morning I had two long conversations with the Trading Standards organisations in my area (there are two - both connected).

As I understand it now - and I asked them to repeat the details carefully to me so that I understood it clearly - there is no 'effective' legislation covering mobile phone contracts and certainly absolutely none covering 'cash/cheque back' schemes. This is worth repeating.

When you take a cashback/chequeback contract out, there is no legislation covering the contract/process.

If an operator sets up a business with chequebacks and then closes up shop, you're in trouble. But you still have to pay out.

For instance, in my case, CPW are saying that what it states on my contract is wrong. What? Yes. My written contract is wrong. What are they going to do about it? Nothing. I'll be £150 - roughly - out of pocket.

Trading Standards have now informed me that there is nothing they can/will do and certainly nothing that Ofcom will do. In fact, Trading standards inform me that Ofcom will not take up individual complaints, because there are so many of them relating to this issue of chequeback/contracts. Ofcom's information to Trading Standards is that they will not take up any individual cases of complaint as they are currently 'monitoring' the situation and compiling statistics. They may in future draw up some 'guidelines'. This was from two TS dept's.

I asked the TS people what they thought this meant. They were quite clear that it meant "you haven't a leg to stand on". There is at present no effective regulator to whom you can take any complaint and expect an investigation.

If your contract has some issue in it - possibly deliberately misleading/misrepresented, possibly deliberately written in - which means you are out of pocket... tough. The only option you are faced with is a small claims court.

TS feel that many mobile phone sellers are deliberately writing 'issues' or misleading/misrepresented information into the contracts as they stand to make 'thousands' from them.

TS and Ofcom are aware of 'thousands of cases' in this region alone and possibly many more.

One comment I was given was that it was like, 'giving the local burglar your credit card'.

Not only this but, I'm not even sure who my contract is with, and TS agree. There appears to be an issue of identity between CPW the company and CPW the shops, that TS are aware of. You might think that you have taken out a contract with CPW the company, but CPW think you have taken it out with the shop and staff within it. TS are aware of this too. It's not clear to TS whether CPW is some kind of franchise or not.

TS told me that a contract could have up to three parties on it (not incuding you) and it would take a legal team to work out who you had the contract with if you go to a small claims court.

It gets better.

CPW seem to put out great 'deals' on a regular basis. Good? No. The deals are regularly removed from their system and no records of them are kept. That's right - no record is kept (I thought that was illegal - apparently it's not) It's just your word against theirs (and what it says on your contract for what good that will do you) That was told to me by CPW staff in a shop in front of 20 other people buying mobile phones. I've also heard that from their call centre. And their staff are regularly turned over too.

Any suggestions? Other than "don't use...."

More later

Micky

If there is a contract in place, then contract law should apply. Ultimately, it will probably need to be sorted out in court. Some case law would be useful, but who is going to risk the money needed to set precedents in court? I don't think class actions can occur in the UK yet, but I understand that could change soon.

The contract documentation will show who the contract is with, also who received your payment? You have a stronger position if you hold contract documentation and the other side doesn't, you can demonstrate that a contract is in place.

I sometimes wonder what Trading Standards do with my tax money.

If CPW are causing you problems then e-mail/fax/write to Dunstone.

Good luck.

quidsinquentin

What you've said is what I already thought as I studied contract/commercial law at college.

However, both TS and CPW both seem to think that it's not like that at all, and that's my concern. Ofcom have already told TS that they will not be getting involved (according to TS) and that raises another concern.

Although the contract document is headed CPW, the line is rented from 3.

But the line payment is to CPW AND 3.

We all claim chequeback from CPW.

But according to CPW the company, I took out my contract with the CPW shop - not the CPW company.

Neither CPW the shop, nor CPW the company will take responsibility.

3 simply said to me that if I stop the payments to them they'll take action (in a sense quite rightly). But they insist that MY contract is not with them it's with CPW, as they only lease the line to CPW.

Interestingly, 3 told me that what I had with them was a 'credit account'. Their words were a "line of credit". Wherein I can spend what I like on the line - in calls etc - and they take the payment for it out of my account. That is the equivalent of a credit card to my mind.

If I stop the bank payments (which would be difficult) then I break the contract with CPW the shop, CPW the company and 3 as it currently stands.

I'd like to hear from any previous CPW staff, as the excuses and put-offs I get change every time I go in to see them.

But the best I heard was that they - CPW - remove the details of previous offers from their system every few months, so there is no record of it. That must surely be illegal??

quidsinquentin

Further to post #8 above.

I was told by the CPW shop that they had contacted CPW the company and they were looking into my claim. I was told that the details - a detailed letter - I had provided had been forwarded to head office. I'd already sent them a copy anyway.

On Monday I got a reply saying, that they could not refund any monies as it was not the end of my contracted period and that if I needed to get any further information I should go to the CPW shop I'd bought it from.

I went to the CPW shop, and asked them to explain. They couldn't. Even though it was all detailed on their computer system I had to go through the whole thing again. and then they asked if I had the original invoice/shop receipt.

"What for?"

"To prove you bought it from here."

"What????"

The fact that the contract papers in my hands give details of the shop name, number, staff, etc, didn't seem to make any difference. they couldn't go any further without those receipt details.

Not only that but that I would have to write to the CPW company.

"What for?"

"To explain the situation to them."

"I've already done that."

"But you need to do it again."

I must have something on my forehead (you can guess what).

quidsinquentin

I've just spoke to Trading Standards again to confirm what they told me earlier.

The regulator for communications, Ofcom, WILL NOT investigate any individual claims or complaints against mobile phone operators. This - according to what Ofcom have told TS - is because of the volume of complaints that they have which is in the 1000's. Most often relating to chequeback/cashback complaints.

So it's worth repeating that this is a completely unregulated area, if the organisation that was set up to regulate and investigate will not do so.

You take out a contract at your own risk.

the_tired_one

quidsinquentin wrote:

I've just spoke to Trading Standards again to confirm what they told me earlier.

The regulator for communications, Ofcom, WILL NOT investigate any individual claims or complaints against mobile phone operators. This - according to what Ofcom have told TS - is because of the volume of complaints that they have which is in the 1000's. Most often relating to chequeback/cashback complaints.

So it's worth repeating that this is a completely unregulated area, if the organisation that was set up to regulate and investigate will not do so.

You take out a contract at your own risk.

Ive just read the entire thread, and am staggered by the CPW's handelling of your claims.

I have to admit Ive had no problems with them in the last 2 years, but my purchases were all online with screen shots taken of EVERY screen that I completed just to be on the safe side (not that it would have mattered if it went pear shaped).

Good luck in your quest sir!

laurajayne

Hiya,

Like I said before....it's been a while since I worked in CPW now...I went back as a part timer for a couple of weeks in Sept, and hated it...so again, off the payroll. I'll do my best though

Chequebacks with networks other than o2 (used to be Voda too....but CPW copped out and gave them back their customers) are a little more complicated....basically you have a dual contract. You are contracted to 3 for your actual line, and they take the money blah blah....your chequeback is from CPW (which we already know). Sadly, cancelling payments to three will just end up with DCAs etc etc - so please don't damage your credit rating this way

CPW use a system called PIE (Point of Sale Integrated Envirnoment - should be POSIE ) which tracks all a customers purchases from ANY store, with who sold the contract etc etc (only problem is a trainee can be in store and has to sell under another staff members name, but that staff member must take responsbility for ALL transactions using their name). This whole thing about needing the orginial paper work is rubbish - they can print out contracts/invoices directly from PIE to have a look, should they need to.

They remove the details of each offer monthly so that it cannot be sold in store - however, you can still see the offer on the customer' lead on PIE. There is also a previous offer chequeback matrix on Melon - the intranet the whole company uses, which is searchable...so again, complete rubbish. ALL stores must keep the duplicates of the contracts they sell for 6 months minimum instore (HO keep for longer I believe) anyhoo.

Sorry - doing my best to answer, but keep having to scroll down

Quidsin - all I can suggest/offer is that you PM me, and I'll try to answer any queries re: procedures etc that I can - I still have contacts in CPW, I may be able to help, but I may not....I will do my best

laurajayne

quidsinquentin wrote:

Hello again!



At one point today, a salesman pointed to a figure on the contract that (and I'm looking at it here and now) shows £198.12. He then said to us, "oh, that 12 (in the £198.12) means a 12 month contract".

What???!!!

And that is complete B*****cks.

There is never EVER anything in the price that tells you the length of the contract. Redemptions would have to sit and workout an offer so that the total owed ended in 12p or 18p otherwise.

mobilegossip

I had a cashback/contract problem with them. I emailed Charlie Boy. He replied within about 20 minutes,and a regional manager rang me within an hour. It was all sorted to my satisfaction and i got a cheque in post shortly after.