Chip 'n' Pin - A Quick Guide Discussion Area

James

bert&ernie wrote: »

Thanks for that - very enlightening.

Obviously. APACS should immediately instigate a recall of all vulnerable PEDs and any cards issued without DDA and iCVV. Merchants and cardholders will of course be delighted at the extra security this provides and will gladly shoulder any inconvenience and cost to obtain replacements.

Cheers, and until they (APACS) do, how on earth can card issuers accuse any victim of fraud with being negligent with their PIN.

One other small point, retailers don't give a hoot. As long as they have C&P terminals in situ and transactions are carried out with a PIN, they are guaranteed their dosh.

bert&ernie

I fear the irony in my last post may have been lost. The point I was trying to make is that no system is flawless - they evolve over time as the flaws come to light and the technology is refreshed when economically viable. Its the consumer that will ultimately pay for any panic overreaction.

Oh, and merchants will give a hoot if they have to replace all their PEDs ahead of the normal refresh cycle. It can be argued that the Cambridge flaw can only be exploited with the collusion or negligence of a merchant, so they should be expected to pay for any technical fix to reassure their customers.

With hindsight, it is easy to argue that the system could have been more secure when first implemented. However, to do so overlooks the practical and economic challenges of rolling out a system like this. In fact it constantly amazes me that the UK managed it at all given our record with large scale socio-technical projects.

I do agree that there is a challenge relating to how the banks deal with suspected or alleged cases of PIN based fraud. However I don't believe its as simple as you suggest - if it were, then there would be a serious problem with people abusing the system to dispute genuine transactions.

James

Hundreds have fallen foul of fuel station card scam:

Story here.

lesley26

i think the chip and pin is a stupid idea i work in a shop and end up with about 10 cards a day left behind (and yes we always tell the customer to remove their card) all it takes is a dodgy customer behind you to see your number and take the card and they could have a field day

bert&ernie

James wrote: »

Hundreds have fallen foul of fuel station card scam:

Story here.

Its always going to be fairly easy to find stories where the system has failed to prevent a fraud. I do, however, admire the consistent effort you must put into trawling local rags for this type of story.

lesley26 wrote: »

i think the chip and pin is a stupid idea i work in a shop and end up with about 10 cards a day left behind (and yes we always tell the customer to remove their card) all it takes is a dodgy customer behind you to see your number and take the card and they could have a field day

How exactly does this make chip and pin a stupid idea? Its the cardholder's responsibility to remember to take their card with them - hardly a difficult task.

skyrider007

Hi

I'm considering switching some of my chip and pin cards to chip and signature. Is this safe to do and will the bank still be responsible for frauds?

Thanks

BritBrat

skyrider007 wrote: »

Hi

I'm considering switching some of my chip and pin cards to chip and signature. Is this safe to do and will the bank still be responsible for frauds?

Thanks

You may find it hard to get a chip and signature card I managed to get one but failed on two others.

The thing with chip and pin is if the card is used with the pin the bank think you have been negligent with the pin, they seem to ignore that you use it in so many places with video cameras, staff and other customers watching you put the pin in.

I think as you use the pin more than you used to (every transaction) you are bound to be compromised but with chip and signature there is no pin and you can not even use it at a cash point and that is the only downside I have had so far.

I opened another account with a small amount of cash left there for the cash point use and is only used for that.

James

bert&ernie wrote: »

Thanks for that - very enlightening.

Obviously. APACS should immediately instigate a recall of all vulnerable PEDs and any cards issued without DDA and iCVV. Merchants and cardholders will of course be delighted at the extra security this provides and will gladly shoulder any inconvenience and cost to obtain replacements.

More of the same:

A miniaturised interceptor inserted inside the terminal copies the information on the card's magnetic strip and picks up the pin.

Detective Constable Harris said: "Any retail outlet that has a chip-and-pin terminal is vulnerable, perhaps a corner shop or takeaway food premises."

Don't let them PIN the blame on you. - Chip & Signature you know it makes sense!

ColinB

Hi Folks - newbie here, so apologies if this is a dim question (or if I've posted it in the wrong place - this thread seemed the best) !

I have a Nationwide CC, which mainly gets used when I travel. There are two cards on the account, one for me, one for my wife - both are normal chip & pin cards. I now want to add a 3rd card for my daughter (for emergency use when she's away travelling during her gap year). To my surprise, Nationwide have stated that all three cards must revert to old fashioned magnetic strip & signature - the system apparently can't cope with more than two chip & pin cards on the same account. The existing two cards will be re-issued and "downgraded". The call centre can't explain why, they just say that this is the only way they can do it. My question - which Nationwide have so far failed to answer hence I'm interested in views from this forum - is what is the downside of this for me ? Since chip & pin was sold to us on the grounds of increased security/reduced risk of fraud, then I assume that by reverting I am more vulnerable - would that be correct ? Perhaps I'm going to find more places (esp overseas) that won't accept it because it's not chip & pin ?
All comments gratefully received !

James

The DOWNSIDE is for the Card Industry and Retailers if fraud is committed, IT's they who would pick up the cost of any fraud NOT YOU.

Your Magstrip and Sign cards wont be rejected anywhere. Retailers in the UK will fall back to the SWIPE and SIGN system when they put your card into their Chip Reading Machines.

Unless you or your wife or daughter specifically want to use your Credit Card for Cash Withdrawals at ATM's then this would be the only reason you would require PINs. If they do send you PINs and you don't want to make use of your cards for taking cash out of ATM's then send them back unopened and ask for written confirmation.

Hop the helps.