Chip 'n' Pin - A Quick Guide Discussion Area

knowledgeman

James wrote: »

Room for thought:

Alliance & Leicesters Latest:

Please note that with immediate effect we are placing limits on the funds that can be withdrawn from ATM's in certain foreign countries.


On the same day that APACS put out the following Press Release:

Protect Your PIN.

"Customers should be confident that using their Chip & PIN card with a PIN is the best way of preventing fraud on their card".

Id be rather annoyed if I was an alliance and leicester customer

1) because its taken them the best part of 2 years to catch up with that trand re fraud

2) instead of putting in place a better fraud prevention system there going to stop usage over a certain limit

As for the poster, I dont have a clue what you are getting at

Chip and Pin conspiracy theorists need to get a grip, it is far safer for the majority, the only reason certain people dont like it is because when they act like idiots and carry their pins with them they arent covered and in all honesty why should they be

The only reason a bank will hold you liable is if the evidence or reasoning shows your pin has to have been with the card

If the facts show that isnt the case you will be covered

James

knowledgeman wrote: »

Id be rather annoyed if I was an alliance and leicester customer

As for the poster, I dont have a clue what you are getting at

Poster demonstrates the thought thats went into the PIN entry device design. How do you hold it in one hand, shield it with the other, and enter your PIN?

Chip & PIN Safer? Warning Over Purse Snatchers.

Click here.

Would this become the norm if the world were Chip & PIN compliant?

Re PIN Based fraud and liabilty - Read some of the postings in these threads - victims, as predicted, are treated like suspects.

nerox4

I have been the victim of debit card fraud, can anyone help.

I had my debit card stolen from a gym, I was not due to visit the gym and drove 30 miles to get there, I was not followed, the theifs were already using the changing rooms..

In 20 minutes the thiefs stole £250 ATM + £1800 at the counter again using the pin as identification.

The bank is Natwest who have been no use at all writing back twice stating that I must have had the pin info duplicated somewhere.

The pin was destroyed 6 years ago.

Natwest assure me that the card has no pin info on it and can't be read.

My question is, I have just been issued with a internet banking hand held card reader for home use, it does not connect anything but to work it you have to put in your pin number which it confirms, does this not mean that the card contains the pin number, also with the pin number changed via an ATM again it reads the new pin as correct.

Can anyone help me as I am £2050 short, and I see it that it can only be one of two reasons, inside job or the card can be read.

James

I’d put it in writing that you didn’t disclose your PIN to anyone. You might like to mention that there are many ways to capture PINs, some of which you can do nothing about. Challenge them to prove that YOU acted without reasonable care with your PIN. Last but not least, ask NatWest for a Crime Reference Number and when they reported this to the Police.

The Banking Code article 12.12 (Gisted).

Unless we can show that you have acted fraudulently or without reasonable care, your liability for the misuse of your card will be limited as follows:

If someone else uses your card, before you tell us it has been lost or stolen, or that someone else knows your PIN, the most you will have to pay is £50.

James

It's difficult to understand why victims of PIN based fraud are being accused of being negligent with their PINs when the Card Industry people published the following (extract) Advice to Chip & PIN retailers:

Why do criminals target cards, card details, and PINs?

Fraudsters try to capture card details and PINs in order to produce fake magnetic strip cards, which can then potentially be used in shops or cash machines that haven’t upgraded to chip and PIN – mainly overseas.

Threats:

Electronic Attacks:

These are attacks on the chip and PIN terminal or the software used to process card details and include attempts by criminals to place illegal, data-capturing devices, bugging equipment or software in chip and PIN terminals or installing pinhole cameras, focused on a keypad, that record customers’ PINs.

Substitution Attack:

Fraudsters attempt to remove parts or all of the chip and PIN terminal and substitute them with doctored or bogus devices that capture card data or PINs. Criminals may attempt to install fake equipment by posing as bogus service engineers.

Theft:

Criminals may try to steal chip and PIN terminals with the aim of gaining access to any stored data held in the device learning about the inherent security features; or attempting to doctor the device prior to re-installing it in a shop environment.

Members of Staff.

Criminals may target businesses by applying for jobs or coercing existing shop staff into helping them so they can access chip and PIN terminals, install pinhole cameras or skim cards through the use of handheld card readers.

Makes you think

trubster

James wrote: »

Members of Staff.

Criminals may target businesses by applying for jobs or coercing existing shop staff into helping them so they can access chip and PIN terminals, install pinhole cameras or skim cards through the use of handheld card readers.

Makes you think

That was seen on TV when police arrested a Boots member of staff, he had a list of pins and swiped the cards through a skimmer before dipping it in the CNP Machine

netlang

I am so ultra careful with my credit card (I even put the pin machine into a carrier bag to tap in the number or go to great lengths to cover it up).

Yesterday is the 3rd time this year I have had my card cloned and my wife has been cloned once in the same period, for me it must be via petrol stations because that is all i use this particular card to purchase. Before Chip and Pin I never ever had anything go wrong with credit cards. I have also noticed that these garages are no longer accepting cheques so I guess it is back to cash only again until I get confident again.

iseethestrals

Can you for example use your partners card and pin? Just I tried using it in a shop and was declined as its obviously in the name MR and I'm a female.
COuld someone please advise

James

iseethestrals wrote: »

Can you for example use your partners card and pin? Just I tried using it in a shop and was declined as its obviously in the name MR and I'm a female.
COuld someone please advise

No such thing as a daft question.

Anyone, any age, anywhere, can use a Chip & PIN card with the valid PIN to get money out of ATM's in the UK and worldwide without ever being challenged. OR in ALL chip & PIN retailers with a very slight chance of being challenged.

Anyone, any age, anywhere, can use a CLONED Chip & PIN card with a genuine PIN at most ATMs worldwide and some ATM's in the UK.


Hence the attraction to crooks. The rewards are increased and the risk is decreased.
ATMs do not challenge individuals. ATMs only retain cards REPORTED lost or stolen.

BritBrat

What's the latest thinking on Chip and Pin?

My bank card will be due for replacing soon but I am not to happy with Chip and Pin as I think it's less secure, yes less secure.

Why do I think that?

Because now you have to enter the pin in to many different places and more often than you did with chip and signature so the risk is greater for people to see/get your pin.

And if banks are washing their hands of any fraud committed when the pin was used leaving the customer to take the loss, what advantage does it have for the customer?